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Old 02-05-2013, 06:59 AM   #151
grigrory
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Re: Alleged cheating at 2009 Partouche Poker Tour final table

New video of Pasqualini/Rossi hands, around 30 minutes long...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=NWVOgYNd1Vs
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Old 02-05-2013, 07:38 AM   #152
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Re: Alleged cheating at 2009 Partouche Poker Tour final table

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Old 02-05-2013, 08:08 AM   #153
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Re: Alleged cheating at 2009 Partouche Poker Tour final table

props to whoever put this vid together.
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:04 AM   #154
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Re: Alleged cheating at 2009 Partouche Poker Tour final table

Poker is becoming more and more disgusting over time. Both the players and organizers rob anyone who try to play honestly and have some fun, seems like even Western saloon movie games are safer.

As for this particular situation, it's hard to notice the patterns without seeing the hole cards but once you seem them it's pretty obvious. I'd love to punch both in the face
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:45 AM   #155
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Re: Alleged cheating at 2009 Partouche Poker Tour final table

Quote:
Originally Posted by starbob View Post


(to our grandfathers)
someone can explain me this ? look like an inside joke.
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:52 AM   #156
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Re: Alleged cheating at 2009 Partouche Poker Tour final table

Quote:
Originally Posted by harkin View Post
Oh, we know where it is.......


it was an answer to this picture. when the american man said they know where France is on the globe.

what is the signification of this picture ?

thanks
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:01 AM   #157
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Re: Alleged cheating at 2009 Partouche Poker Tour final table

Normandy Beach American Cemetery

Grandfathers are buried there.
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:09 AM   #158
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Re: Alleged cheating at 2009 Partouche Poker Tour final table

ohh ok!

thanks for the answer

and my sympathy
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Old 02-05-2013, 12:24 PM   #159
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Re: Alleged cheating at 2009 Partouche Poker Tour final table

just watched the new video (which is around 30 min long and has french commentary). the new video shows the hands in more of their entirety with more of the surroundings and also includes hands where both pas and rossi are involved in hands with other players. I find it hilarious that either rossi or pas are trying to defend themselves here. I also think its amazing that this wasn't discovered at the final table or quickly afterwards as they do a pretty bad job of giving signals. the most telling thing besides the signals is watching how hard pas plays hands against others, but how passive he plays them against rossi. in the vid, as pas is playing hands against others u can watch as he gets raised with 35ss on a 3 7 9 board by AK and he reships all in with bottom pair. in another spot he calls an an all in with A8 w/o even thinking about it long. yet he folds AK to rossi, A8 suited from late position against rossi's 3 bet, etc.

When i watched the initial 4 min montage video, it was clear they were using signals and cheating, but hard to tell the context.

after watching the 30 min video and some of the additional ones that where in russian where you can see the hand from start to finish, plus the additional hands that both rossi and pas played against other opponents, this is an open and shut case.

not only did these guys cheat, they were not that good at hiding it via the signals they used nor in their gameplay or gameflow. They play hands vs others so aggressive and without fear, but they tap dance around each other in every single hand they are in. how the hell this wasn't blown up within a week after partouche is amazing to me. and if its true that partouche looked into these allegations, then it is probably a good thing they don't run big tournaments anymore because the cheating here is about as obvious as you can get.

JD
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:29 PM   #160
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Re: Alleged cheating at 2009 Partouche Poker Tour final table

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentenzza View Post
JPP: "Groupe Partouche, being conscientious as always, has verified the entire footage of this long final table, What did they find? Absolutely nothing. I think the seriousness of Groupe Partouche has also been proved the following year when they disqualified a player for cheating."
Prior to that JPP have said that they watched the footage in the folowing weeks of tourney on the demand of the guy who has leaked the videos.

But groupe partouche came out of silence today and said no one ever mention anything about cheating until this last few weeks...someone is lying.

I will pass on the other things they say but it s overall pretty laughable and exactly what you expect from the Partouche group.
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Old 02-05-2013, 06:27 PM   #161
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Re: Alleged cheating at 2009 Partouche Poker Tour final table

there is still a possibility of legal action, but it can only be initiated by one of the player of this final table, and it shall be start quickly.

only by this legal action, partouche and players will perhaps be placed under investigation.

if not, nothing else.
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:51 AM   #162
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Re: Alleged cheating at 2009 Partouche Poker Tour final table

Partouche Groupe CEO comments (Google Translate)-
http://*******/X2GJN6

Leading French newspaper article (GT also) -
http://*******/14Rvs5S

Last edited by grigrory; 02-06-2013 at 06:52 AM. Reason: Hmm...dont know why but i cant put bitly link here, sorry guys.
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:08 AM   #163
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Re: Alleged cheating at 2009 Partouche Poker Tour final table

i guess bitly is spam filtered for some reason..
just post the link with the button thing.
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:19 AM   #164
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Re: Alleged cheating at 2009 Partouche Poker Tour final table

@grigory

can u please put in the hole URL. The links don't work
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:33 AM   #165
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Re: Alleged cheating at 2009 Partouche Poker Tour final table

Both Links, both in french:

Partouche Guy:

http://www.livepoker.fr/actualites3-...questions.html

Le Parisien (paywall though)

http://www.leparisien.fr/espace-prem...13-2543163.php
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:51 AM   #166
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Re: Alleged cheating at 2009 Partouche Poker Tour final table

Fabrice Paire (CEO of Groupe Partouche) appears to be open minded about it.

the other article seems to be unique to that paywall site. Maybe in a few days others will pick it up.
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:35 AM   #167
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Re: Alleged cheating at 2009 Partouche Poker Tour final table

This type of stuff infuriates me. This is the one thing that gives poker a bad name. This was so blatant by these two guys. They were not even sophisticated in their signals.

Seems like there needs to be video review of the players in any major televised events in the future.
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:30 AM   #168
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Re: Alleged cheating at 2009 Partouche Poker Tour final table

Jean-Paul Pasqualini is a sponsored pro on the Unibet team.

However it seems, he has been removed from their team pro web page:

Here he is before the scandal broke on January 18th 2013:

http://web.archive.org/web/201301180...poker/team-pro (lol at the description - The gentleman of poker)


and here's the page today:

https://www.unibet.fr/poker/team-pro
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:33 AM   #169
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Re: Alleged cheating at 2009 Partouche Poker Tour final table

Thanks for your posts.

I think it was not so obvious for dealers or floor, because it could have been something like one signal per hour. For 17 hours final table.

But if i did understand it properly (after 125 pages on the topic on Club Poker, and other sources), it look like the third guy (Gianni Giaroni, dead since), aware of the cheat, did complain, but the floor didn’t accept it.
There’s a video where Gianni Giaroni refused to shake hand with one of the two cheater, and saying (in italian) that it was not fair.

Two finalists, Michel Janvier et Michael Tureniec, asked for a inquiry recently.

Fabrice Paire, Président du Directoire du Groupe Partouche, after one week, declared on Live Poker : »la finale du PPT 2009 s’[était] déroulée avec tout le sérieux et l’attention des équipes qui étaient en charge de celle-ci" et qu"à aucun moment il n’[avait] été relevé d’indices de fraude. Je ne donnerai suite qu’aux demandes d’une autorité judiciaire compétente en la matière, qui souhaiterait consulter ces rushes dans le cadre d'une éventuelle procédure".
http://www.livepoker.fr/actualites3-...questions.html

It looks like he’s betting on no inquiry. And he’s saying : everything was fine and fair. Gross.

But... it finally comes to the generalist medias !
http://www.leparisien.fr/espace-prem...13-2543163.php (restricted).
And paper edition i think. And radio.
The other medias could follow.

There are some english poker websites speaking about this too.

IMO, what is really weird, beyond the very probable cheat, is the silence first made around this, especially strange from poker sites, except in some forums, and the silence from too many pros, imo. The poor defense from the two guys, from some friends of then, and from some poker website again ! Of course the poor attitude from Partouche, in my opinion.

Courageously, F. Soulier was the first to react if i do not make mistake (http://www.madeinpoker.com/le-blog-d...nte-11187.html), then some pros from Winamax (http://www.clubpoker.net/forum-poker...9#entry3210558). And finally other.
F. Soulier, if he didn’t accuse the two guys, said some very interesting thinks about the general problem of cheating, and the urge for us, players, to do something about it. I totally agree with that. In France, Governments and regulation organisms obviously don’t care, casinos or rooms may not care too much (not their money). We don’t have a PPA. But many players do care about that. Again, the majority of poker players in France are fair players, not cheaters.

It would be very bad for poker in France (and other countries ?) if no action were taken, beyond the presumed cheaters, to fix the rules of control, live and online, for every casino, private places, rooms.
Well, many players are looking for a inquiry now, and maybe to do something about the problem in general. The pros can start something witch could have effects, imo.

Poker is a very great game, a sport, a business, cheaters shouldn’t not be welcome or tolerated, it should be said and made loud and clear, in my opinion.

Again, sorry for my english, i’m french, i think this is a serious matter, but i’m kind of exhausted
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:38 AM   #170
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Re: Alleged cheating at 2009 Partouche Poker Tour final table

Max - Has anyone at that final table actually gone to the police and filed a complaint? That's what needs to happen IMO. There's no point them complaining to Partouche because lol Partouche.

An alleged criminal offence has taken place and nothing will be done unless the police is involved.
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:01 AM   #171
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Re: Alleged cheating at 2009 Partouche Poker Tour final table

When Gianni Giaron finished, obviously upset :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=oXXWk8jpwD4
(Langages French and italian)

He made interview after in newspapers, too.

MrBump : it looks like it could be too late for criminal charges. But still, french game police could make a inquiry. Doesn't look on it's way though yet, but maybe will they with some noise from the medias and others.
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:19 PM   #172
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Re: Alleged cheating at 2009 Partouche Poker Tour final table

More on media today :
http://www.lejdd.fr/Poker/Actualite/...s-actes-590170

And a good post on the French Poker School (Feb 2) :
http://ecolefrancaisedepoker.fr/foru...009-t9317.html

In french.
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:29 PM   #173
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Re: Alleged cheating at 2009 Partouche Poker Tour final table

It's good that the story has now hit mainstream media. For Partouche to act, they need to feel that the negative publicity will lead to less people wanting to play in their casinos because of the risk of cheating going on. $$$ is the only language the casinos understand.

If enough French players boycotted Partouche casinos unless they take action, then there might be some hope that something will be done.
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:39 PM   #174
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Re: Alleged cheating at 2009 Partouche Poker Tour final table

Partouche's line in the sand seems to be a requirement for an "official" demand.
Otherwise they won't release the results of their in-house inquiry, or the complete tapes of the tournament to anyone.
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:48 PM   #175
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Re: Alleged cheating at 2009 Partouche Poker Tour final table

Well done folks, especially Mr Bump. This is what we need more of in poker, and it just shows the power of complaining/protest.
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