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Allegations of Cheating in WSOP 10k HU Allegations of Cheating in WSOP 10k HU

06-04-2015 , 04:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeWithFaceCards
im pretty surprised limon is on the other side of the fence on this one.

person with a history of cheating plays strangely, does strange things at the table, makes correct folds against an A preflop while playing all his other hands, and goes deep in a tourney as a significant underdog in all his matches. It's not enough to convict the man, but it's certainly enough to be very suspicious, I would think.
im not on either side of the fence and i am suspicious. the info doesnt add up to cheating yet in my experience.
Allegations of Cheating in WSOP 10k HU Quote
06-04-2015 , 04:07 PM
Quote:
If you were to make those allegations against someone like myself, and if those allegations could not be substantiated, you would be facing a major lawsuit as all of the evidence I need is in this forum thread and on social media. Moreover, you have used your position as a well known poker pro to basically sick the dogs on a fellow player in the public eye.
Did you have invisible ink in your hair somehow or what did you do exactly? The napkins stuff almost sounds over the top.
Allegations of Cheating in WSOP 10k HU Quote
06-04-2015 , 04:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by limon
sophisticated cheater described (known across europe, using system undetectable upon initial inspection) would NEVER do this.
Are you guys real? It's not even like the article about this guy cheating was years ago, that would be bad enough. The article is from last month. You guys are happily defended a confirmed scammer whose stolen thousands from poker players for the sake of arguement, devils advocate? This is not a well known poker player we are accusing here or anything. We are accusing a scam artist portraying himself as a poker player. The cheaters will always be ahead of the system. Obviously I'd hope to get a refund, but what I'd really prefer is a fair opportunity to win the heads up tourny and that was not provided to me nor is that going to happen untill hopefully 2016. What I'd like to accomplish and probably what most of you should want is

1) Never see this guy's face again
2) Figure out how he was cheating NOT if and how we could prevent it in the future.
3) This being a learning experience for everyone involved and this somehow pushing poker rooms to eventually share with other rooms who cheaters are. Now I'm not sure this is attainable but I'd hope things like this push that discussion on how we can get better.

Sent from my SM-N900T using 2+2 Forums
Allegations of Cheating in WSOP 10k HU Quote
06-04-2015 , 04:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by handbag86
I'm not sure if you're nitpicking over .18% equity or you see something I don't. Care to elaborate?
I'm just here spreading truth and making the world a better place. YW!
Allegations of Cheating in WSOP 10k HU Quote
06-04-2015 , 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronmermel
Are you guys real? It's not even like the article about this guy cheating was years ago, that would be bad enough. The article is from last month. You guys are happily defended a confirmed scammer whose stolen thousands from poker players for the sake of arguement, devils advocate? This is not a well known poker player we are accusing here or anything. We are accusing a scam artist portraying himself as a poker player. The cheaters will always be ahead of the system. Obviously I'd hope to get a refund, but what I'd really prefer is a fair opportunity to win the heads up tourny and that was not provided to me nor is that going to happen untill hopefully 2016. What I'd like to accomplish and probably what most of you should want is

1) Never see this guy's face again
2) Figure out how he was cheating NOT if and how we could prevent it in the future.
3) This being a learning experience for everyone involved and this somehow pushing poker rooms to eventually share with other rooms who cheaters are. Now I'm not sure this is attainable but I'd hope things like this push that discussion on how we can get better.

Sent from my SM-N900T using 2+2 Forums
We know hes a scammer how? was he convicted? you know dozens of players were just thrown out of london casino for being "cheaters" but basically they were just bumhunting douchebags.

He cheated in this instance how? by beating you in a HU sitngo?

I agree there should be an investigation but to say we shouldnt think critically about the evidence provided so far is asinine.

Im not rooting against you im rooting for the truth.
Allegations of Cheating in WSOP 10k HU Quote
06-04-2015 , 04:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by handbag86
From what has been posted so far ITT especially aarons post it would seem that if villain was cheating he at least marked queens through aces in a manner which he could distinguish between them. He did not mark twos through sixes (as he raised aarons bet on Q62). So I'm guessing broadways only.

That would explain his hesitance with AT when he knew you held an ace, being the only hand you could have that was ahead was AJ.

In general I would imagine knowing broadway cards in hold em would be enough of an advantage to win.
Ya don't say.

Knowing 4 deuces is a massive edge.
Allegations of Cheating in WSOP 10k HU Quote
06-04-2015 , 04:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by limon
We know hes a scammer how? was he convicted? you know dozens of players were just thrown out of london casino for being "cheaters" but basically they were just bumhunting douchebags.

He cheated in this instance how? by beating you in a HU sitngo?

I agree there should be an investigation but to say we shouldnt think critically about the evidence provided so far is asinine.

Im not rooting against you im rooting for the truth.

Allegations of Cheating in WSOP 10k HU Quote
06-04-2015 , 04:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJPoker
Did Coca cheat? I have no idea based on the pure supposition in your post. Is it possible? Yes, it is possible. Is there any proof of cheating? There is absolutely no proof at this time that Coca cheated.

Have you accused Coca of cheating? You have definitively accused Coca of cheating in more than 1 heads up match. Now Jack Eiffel and his team at the WSOP will review video from the eye in the sky if available as well as any decks of cards used at the time. Most ,likely the video will be nondescript and the decks of cards lost in the chain of evidence. If that is the situation then the investigation will go nowhere. However, for your sake you better hope that the investigation will bear fruit.

Why should you be concerned? If the WSOP cannot substantiate your cheating allegations then you are subject to civil action for libel. Coca may not have won the $10,000 HU bracelet but you may inevitably be his cash cow. You have branded him a cheat for all casinos running poker tourneys and cash games. If those allegations cannot be substantiated you are definitely at risk in civil litigation. The question becomes have you damaged his ability to partake in poker and in that regard adversely affected his ability to make a living with poker. If so, you would be liable for a major sum of money.

If you were to make those allegations against someone like myself, and if those allegations could not be substantiated, you would be facing a major lawsuit as all of the evidence I need is in this forum thread and on social media. Moreover, you have used your position as a well known poker pro to basically sick the dogs on a fellow player in the public eye.

What should you have done? it is quite simple. If you thought that Coca had cheated you should have privately voiced your concerns to Jack Eiffel and WSOP staff. It would be up to the WSOP and Caesars Entertainment to privately investigate the possibility of cheating. At no time should these allegations have ever found their way onto a thread of this type or social media. For your sake you better hope the allegations can be proven to be true. If not, I am sure numerous attorneys will be knocking on Coca's door with an offer of representation to sue you as allegations of cheating against any poker pro could be financially devastating. Ask yourself one question. What if a fellow poker pro accused you of cheating in your heads up match and posted those accusations in this forum thread and all over social media. What would be the affect on your poker career as well as the perception of you as a poker pro. Good luck.
Huh ?

LOL at suing anyone but more importantly who are you ?
Allegations of Cheating in WSOP 10k HU Quote
06-04-2015 , 04:38 PM
I remain confused as to why people who are not limon are allowed to post in NVG.
Allegations of Cheating in WSOP 10k HU Quote
06-04-2015 , 04:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by enzet
i dont know, its statistically very unlikely for he getting every A, K and Q in the first couple of levels (lets say 40 hands) he must have marked exact cards to be able to develop this agressive gameplan w bluffraises and ****. it seemd kind of silly to bluffraise random air hands if there is possibility the other guy has a nice top pair lets say. im sure if there is a security video footage they can model what happened exactly..
this. everyone is so quick to assume he's going to be dealt every A and K in the deck in a couple of levels.
Allegations of Cheating in WSOP 10k HU Quote
06-04-2015 , 04:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJPoker
Did Coca cheat? I have no idea based on the pure supposition in your post. Is it possible? Yes, it is possible. Is there any proof of cheating? There is absolutely no proof at this time that Coca cheated.

Have you accused Coca of cheating? You have definitively accused Coca of cheating in more than 1 heads up match. Now Jack Eiffel and his team at the WSOP will review video from the eye in the sky if available as well as any decks of cards used at the time. Most ,likely the video will be nondescript and the decks of cards lost in the chain of evidence. If that is the situation then the investigation will go nowhere. However, for your sake you better hope that the investigation will bear fruit.

Why should you be concerned? If the WSOP cannot substantiate your cheating allegations then you are subject to civil action for libel. Coca may not have won the $10,000 HU bracelet but you may inevitably be his cash cow. You have branded him a cheat for all casinos running poker tourneys and cash games. If those allegations cannot be substantiated you are definitely at risk in civil litigation. The question becomes have you damaged his ability to partake in poker and in that regard adversely affected his ability to make a living with poker. If so, you would be liable for a major sum of money.

If you were to make those allegations against someone like myself, and if those allegations could not be substantiated, you would be facing a major lawsuit as all of the evidence I need is in this forum thread and on social media. Moreover, you have used your position as a well known poker pro to basically sick the dogs on a fellow player in the public eye.

What should you have done? it is quite simple. If you thought that Coca had cheated you should have privately voiced your concerns to Jack Eiffel and WSOP staff. It would be up to the WSOP and Caesars Entertainment to privately investigate the possibility of cheating. At no time should these allegations have ever found their way onto a thread of this type or social media. For your sake you better hope the allegations can be proven to be true. If not, I am sure numerous attorneys will be knocking on Coca's door with an offer of representation to sue you as allegations of cheating against any poker pro could be financially devastating. Ask yourself one question. What if a fellow poker pro accused you of cheating in your heads up match and posted those accusations in this forum thread and all over social media. What would be the affect on your poker career as well as the perception of you as a poker pro. Good luck.
He has history for this though. So the guy is a cheat.
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06-04-2015 , 04:52 PM
Just assume he is using some sort of ink, then it's easy to use a single dot for lets say a then, two dots for a jack and so on. After 10 or so hands you will have marked a significant number of cards, which will only increase with every hand played.
Allegations of Cheating in WSOP 10k HU Quote
06-04-2015 , 04:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcb08
LOL @ someone who has been banned at casinos for cheating trying to sue for being accused of cheating
and he made such a long and dramatic post lol
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06-04-2015 , 04:59 PM
Why didnt op request a new deck during the match?
Allegations of Cheating in WSOP 10k HU Quote
06-04-2015 , 05:04 PM
The superusers on UB were discovered by people putting together all their databases of hands played on the site. This time again players do the same thing sharing their reads/facts/hands and their collective conclusion is that they somehow got cheated by a guy who is banned all over Europe and people have the nerve to come with allegations of civil suits at people voicing their anger ? Lowlife garbages.
Allegations of Cheating in WSOP 10k HU Quote
06-04-2015 , 05:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronmermel

4) My most embarrassing hand of the match. Val limps button. I check behind with K7off. Flop AQ7xxx. Chk. Chk. Turn 6. Ck. Ck. River 2. I check. He bets 3k into 4k I go to call and accidentally through in a 5k chip almost simultaneously as I said call but I believe the chips hit the table first as it stood it was a raise to 7k and I didn't fight it.
Facing a bet of 3k, how is a single chip of 5k not an automatic call?
Allegations of Cheating in WSOP 10k HU Quote
06-04-2015 , 05:07 PM
It sucks for the people affected, that even if it's found that the person did cheat, and they get their buy-in back, there's no way of giving them back that chance to compete. Like maybe they'd have been eliminated prior to making ITM anyways, but maybe they'd have won too - so that's impossible to replace ... that chance to play ...

Guess in an ideal world, it'd be nice if the people in charge were to stay on top of developments in technology, and put preventative measures in place before something actually happens (by using a shoe with a built-in detector, or whatever). But maybe things move too fast for them to stay ahead of things, who knows ...
Allegations of Cheating in WSOP 10k HU Quote
06-04-2015 , 05:07 PM
Doesn't the new decks used in this WSOP have RFID? At least for the FT's they do, and if that's the case you could make an argument for him to have some way of receiving information and interpreting the card information. I have no clue about how it could be done, but from the first time I heard about it I thought it was a huge risk.
Allegations of Cheating in WSOP 10k HU Quote
06-04-2015 , 05:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rageotones
this. everyone is so quick to assume he's going to be dealt every A and K in the deck in a couple of levels.
and stalling & shuffling EVERY hand dictates the same, why dont just openfold ****ty hands and move on? c'mon, guy marked every ****in single card in the deck or none of them.
Allegations of Cheating in WSOP 10k HU Quote
06-04-2015 , 05:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by enzet
i dont know, its statistically very unlikely for he getting every A, K and Q in the first couple of levels (lets say 40 hands) he must have marked exact cards to be able to develop this agressive gameplan w bluffraises and ****. it seemd kind of silly to bluffraise random air hands if there is possibility the other guy has a nice top pair lets say. im sure if there is a security video footage they can model what happened exactly..
In 40 deals I think you are expected to see a little more than 3 each of the Aces, Kings, and Queens, and around 9.5 of them in total.

While this is no guarantee of marking every high card, it is surely enough to give any competent player a huge edge in any heads-up match.
Allegations of Cheating in WSOP 10k HU Quote
06-04-2015 , 05:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSwag
Why didnt op request a new deck during the match?
The OP of this thread actually has nothing at all to do with it.
Allegations of Cheating in WSOP 10k HU Quote
06-04-2015 , 05:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whosnext
In 40 deals I think you are expected to see a little more than 3 each of the Aces, Kings, and Queens, and around 9.5 of them in total.

While this is no guarantee of marking every high card, it is surely enough to give any competent player a huge edge in any heads-up match.
he had to run around/above expectation in getting high cards in order to beat 4 world class HU players in a row.
Allegations of Cheating in WSOP 10k HU Quote
06-04-2015 , 05:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by enzet
he had to run around/above expectation in getting high cards in order to beat 4 world class HU players in a row.
I honestly do not know what you are saying.

As explained in this thread, he folded a ton of hands early on which was not overly damaging to his stack as the structure is so deep.

And supposing he saw three distinct aces, kings, and queens in his first 40 deals (this is conservative), he can see the fourth ace, and/or fourth king, and/or fourth queen in subsequent hands when he became more active and more aggressive.

Everybody who has ever played poker would agree that knowing the vast majority of the aces, kings, and queens (differential marking in all likelihood) would give a player a huge edge.
Allegations of Cheating in WSOP 10k HU Quote
06-04-2015 , 05:30 PM
What I don't understand is why the hell he would have to ask to see someones stack?

You both start with 100k? (200k chips total) So he can just look at his stack and know how much you got behind as well.. I'm not sure why nobody has mentioned this yet, atleast i never saw it...

Seems extremely sketchy to me can't wait to hear the outcome
Allegations of Cheating in WSOP 10k HU Quote
06-04-2015 , 05:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcarnage
What I don't understand is why the hell he would have to ask to see someones stack?

You both start with 100k? (200k chips total) So he can just look at his stack and know how much you got behind as well.. I'm not sure why nobody has mentioned this yet, atleast i never saw it...

Seems extremely sketchy to me can't wait to hear the outcome
He is asking the see the other players stack as a ruse to actually get a better look at the backs of their cards.
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