It’s insane that someone likes Foxen wants to start the “we should ban cheaters” game given that he should be the first to go.

Projection, I guess?

Foxen and his wife Kristen Bicknell engaged in the most clear cut collusion I’ve ever seen . If we’re going to talk about cheating in poker, their names are second and third after Mike Postle.

I don’t know about Alli but RTA is inevitable and should just be assumed online like it is in chess, and high stakes live players should protect their hole cards. If anyone deserves a penalty it’s Paul Phua for exposing cards. I know nothing about Ali as a player besides this but this evidence is about .0000001% as strong as the evidence that Foxen is a cheater.

Just ban Foxen, he’s a cheater and looking to start ridiculous drama with his childish projections.

But it is ok for Foxen and his gf to collude at MTT final tables ? lol

Brain dead moron lol

Also pretty funny he complains his opponent uses solver, then pulls up his own solver to complain about his opponent diverging from how a solver plays.

This accusation is so unhinged seems like it’s coming from a Foxen parody account.

Might agree with this if it wasn't corroborated by many high stakes pros, just because it if Foxen calling them out doesnt mean we should ignore it or blow it off. Honestly, I am sure you can count on one hand the number of big pros that can be trusted and have a completely clean slate. That kind of money brings out the worst in people

So the standard for being labeled a cheater nowadays is if you don’t play a hand according to how a “solver” says you should play it, ok got it lol.

Cliffs on foxen and kristen soft play pls, the detailed the better.

Also of all the people who’s hole cards I wouldn’t wanna get caught looking at, Phau’s are for sure the most.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkdYdiJ8sso&t=723s

Hand was posted but cliffs are Foxen and Kristen ended up three handed against another player, informed that player of their interest in each other, and offered to deal. player declined and played out the tourney and one of the two above soft plays JJ I believe at bit against the others KK only getting in 3bets preflop and both I believe playing slightly cautious and passive postflop. It's definitely arguably played a bit soft but under the consideration that they did have interest in each other it makes sense from their point of view in a way. They aren't incentivized to stack off light against each other and they made that known to the other player while in three handed play.

Comparing that to someone caught outright cheating with RTA is asinine.

I don't really have a problem with the Foxen-Bicknell situation. They made it clear that they had a relationship and offered to discuss a chop. Other guy didn't even want to discuss it, which was beyond dumb.

That makes it okay?

They handled it about as appropriate as possible by notifying that player prior to three handed play that they had interest in each other's stake in this tournament and considering that sharing action is allowed I'm not sure what else they could have done in this situation. No idea what the stacksize of the 3rd player even was during this hand. If that player was short they were even more incentivized to avoid collision with each other.

Regardless it doesn't compare to what Foxen is calling people out for in the original post and to label him a cheat for this action is a bit of a stretch.

Very sketchy stuff. If he's a "known cheater" I'm curious why there isn't others outing him or evidence being provided. I wonder if there's any evidence. How do we know what he was banned on GG for? Simply being banned at the same time as others =/= the same reason. Gaming companies often do ban waves.

Also, on the other side, how do we know what Foxen was banned for on GG or ACR or Stars? Any sort of proof about any of these accusations would be interesting to see.

^^



Anyone checking their cards like this is giving whomever is on the side that they aren't covering a free look.

Agreed, it's all too common. I tell people when they show me their cards and often they keep checking them the same way.

If there's evidence I'd imagine there's people that want it to come to light. Maybe this will start that train; it'd be good to see what's being referenced. Can't blame someone for not spreading rumors or not bringing accusations public without proof.

Certainly not. Though, the guy deciding to play 3 handed with two people who are in a relationship and have each other's action is crazy.

^^
Yea, it's not comparable.

Agreed. I could see if Foxen and Bicknell had HID their relationship to that third player, but they were open and upfront about it and tried to do a deal to be fair given the unusual circumstance.

I think a lot of people just dislike them because they are right-leaning, so they're going to exaggerate the tournament situation because they dislike his stance on vaccines and are looking for any reason they can to demonize and discredit him here.

I applaud him for going public and putting the cheaters on blast.

They did not handle it as appropriatley as possible. Handling it as appropriately as possible is not softplaying each other. By the way, nobody forced a romantic couple to register for the same tournament in the first place.

Foxen had 40BB and failed to get stacks in after flopping top set on a dry board. If he wants to talk about how people are not taking solver approved lines, I'd love to see the sims where you don't get 40BB in the middle with a set.

It was a cut and dry softplay, plain and simple. Kale should have taken the deal but if we're going to talk about honor and integrity, just because he didn't take the deal does not mean the remaining players have a free license to collude.

Put solvers aside for a second, someone running a bluff on a monotone board is a lot more plausible as a feel play than failing to get 40BB in with top set. You think someones scared of diamond, you represent diamonds, nobody needs a solver to justify that. You have JJ and flop is J54r rainbow and by river you've only gotten 20BB in, that's much harder to explain on any ICM other than maybe stone cold bubble satellite structure. Anyone looking at Foxen/Bicknell hand will raise an eyebrow, nobody would have raised eyebrow about this Ali bluff if Foxen hadn't surfaced it.

The RTA stuff online, I know nothing about specific player details but I do think it's a hard fact that it's impossible for sites to effectively prevent that. No matter what their software does, someone gets a second laptop and types in the action. You can't stop that, and the alternative of hoping all these people playing large sums of money on the honor system is foolish.

HUDs were the original RTA and it's so absurdly misguided to think you can prevent it that it's a massive waste of time to even discuss it. I'm not saying RTA is right, just that it's impossible to prevent, it's a waste of effort to act otherwise. These conversations go on and on but they will never end because people are hoping there will be some magical solution that doesn't exist other than forcing people into the same room and playing live poker.

Again, insane amount of projection going on. Foxen really got lucky that his collusion story kind of went away that nothing could be further against his interest than "let's start **** where we talk about banning players who bend/break rules". It's another piece of evidence this guy has a screw loose, because if he gets his wish and we ban scumbag players ,his wife and him are first on the chopping block.

thanks for the breaking story as always, treadlightly!!!

Nobody forced them but they do have the right to play in the same tournament if they choose to... You clearly have it out for Foxen if you think that is at all comparable to what Ali/Schindler are being accused of. To me it isn't anywhere close ESPECIALLY since they made it clear to Burns they had staked each other. As previously mentioned as long as staking is legal, what they did is handled appropriately.

lol wat???? You seriously can't be serious about this comment. Your dislike/bias against these two is painfully showing

I don't have it out for Foxen, you have it out to irrationally defend him.

It's very simple, collusion in poker is cheating. Softplaying in a tournament is collusion. This whole "we offered a chop" does not absolve cheating.

Why do people keep bringing up "they offered to chop"? Its irrelevant. You can offer chops all day long, at no point does that justify collusion which is cheating. By bringing up "they offered to chop" you are actually reinforcing that what they ddi was wrong becuase you're bringing up something irrelevant rather than debating the actual question, which is whether they softplayed each other. And the vast majority of poker pros see somoene fail to get 40BB in with a set will agree there was softplay.

If you want to defend Foxen, best thing to do is never bring up "they offered to chop." Because offering a chop does not justify any sort of softplay, so is irrelevant.

Whatever they are looking for when Berkey and Leng post these tweets, it is a good thing for everyone and it will help the situation to improve because they are well known and reputable people backing up Foxen's claims while a lot of HS pros didn't ever say anything. Don't really see anything worth complaining about here

The tournament hand was almost 4 years ago, well before any discussion on vaccines.

I too applaud him for going public and I don't think ones past mistakes should discredit that. But I don't recall a single pro defending their clear cut soft play, and offering a chop doesn't change a thing. They refused to admit their relationship changed how they played the hand (lol) but then also admitted they'd hope to avoid a similar situation in the future.

While I'm not saying their 3 handed situation looks good on them and I can agree there was definitely softplay going on, I don't think it compares to the calculated and intentional stuff going on in the high stakes fields these days. That is far more deliberate and planned than an oddball situation where the couple wind up in the final 3 as a lark in a larger field event than the smaller high-stakes pro focused events.

lol at thinking it's okay to collude with another player just because you let the third player know ahead of time you wouldn't be playing your normal games against each other.

If you agree they softplayed, they colluded at a final table which is cheating, plain and simple. Much more clear cut cheating than things with RTA which has all sorts of blurry lines. Go watch runitonce videos and youll see plenty of pros running HUDs which are a form of RTA. Nobody really complained about that, in fact many posters assumed you used HUDs. Now RTA has evolved and is getting even more of a threat but where the line on whats allowed and whats not allowed is not even clear. If I write down preflop hand ranges on a sticky note and attach them to my monitor, is that RTA?

Colluding is not ambiguous as to whether its not its cheating. It also takes place at live poker and it makes more sense to ban live players for cheating at live poker than cheating at some different online site.

So to wrap up you:

1. Acknowledge that Foxen is a clear cut cheater at live poker
2. Think offering a chop somehow justifies cheating even though thats not true in any world and is entirely irrelevant
3. Think hes a standup guy for wanting to ban some of his toughest opponents from live poker by accusing them with incredibly flimsy evidence such as they diverged in one hand from a solver approved line (again, the irony hes both accusing other players of over relying on solvers yet diverging from them is cheating)
4. And somehow conclude that I'm biased? While you give a free pass to an established cheater and commend him for coming hard after others based on murky evidence

Pretty obvious you have some bad bias yourself here.

Softplay is collusion and collusion is cheating and theres much harder evidence Foxen did that than Ali or Jake did anything. So if we're banning cheaters. Foxen should be the first to go.

By the way, I have no problemse with husbands and wives entering the same tournament if they don't cheat together. I only brought up that they didn't have to play the same tournament because it seems some people think that once it gets 3 handed they had simply no choice but to collude. I think the best case scenario is they dont softplay each other, but if they can't commit to that, then don't register for the same tournament.

lol @ hating on Foxen and Bicknell for the 3-handed soft play. Yeah, in a perfect world where they are literal ****ing saints they don't do it, true. But the world isn't perfect and there are no saint.

Literally (and I mean literally, not figuratively) no one would keep themself from soft playing their partner in that spot. Which the two of them realized was obvious so they asked to chop and explained why.

Ya'll giving them **** for it can PRETEND like you wouldn't do what they did, but you would.

I wouldn't, but keep trying to justify it however you want.