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Old 05-29-2017, 05:09 PM   #151
Dream Crusher
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re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

Interesting. I've never played in a game where players regularly hide their big chips. I've also never played in a game where players don't help dealers enforce this by saying something like "Dealer can you please advise player X about keeping his big chips visible."

I did play in a 5/T game back in the day where a guy had like $8k in cash hidden underneath a big ass smart phone though. That's another trick that you nefarious types could try.
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Old 05-29-2017, 05:43 PM   #152
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re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulwaxical View Post
+1 Waited for the action to fold to him and then tried to calmly move the chips into view as if they'd been there the whole time.

Lol if anyone thinks this isn't an angle after watching this.
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Old 05-29-2017, 06:34 PM   #153
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re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

"Oh look what I've got here. Let me play with these and spread them out for every one to see while I pretend to make a decision."
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Old 05-29-2017, 07:16 PM   #154
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re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulwaxical View Post
+1 Waited for the action to fold to him and then tried to calmly move the chips into view as if they'd been there the whole time.

Actually, he waited until the guy SHOVED, then he picked up his 2 hidden 5k chips. That's way worse.
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Old 05-29-2017, 08:48 PM   #155
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re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by dappadan777 View Post
Lol if anyone thinks this isn't an angle after watching this.
+1

I am quite conservative in trying to see both sides in any dispute and I'm amazed anyone believes this wasn't intentional.
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Old 05-29-2017, 09:08 PM   #156
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re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

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Originally Posted by prahsk87 View Post
Is AQo really a hand you angle with preflop? Even if you induce someone to 4bet shove for what he thinks is ~50bb instead of 100bb+ you're not exactly fist pumping while calling, are you?
This explains why it is probably not an angle.
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Old 05-29-2017, 09:42 PM   #157
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re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

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Originally Posted by Robot9999 View Post
This explains why it is probably not an angle.
Wrong. Are you people who keep saying this just that dumb? He isn't setting up the angle for this specific hand, just having it as an option when the right situation comes up. AQ becomes a perfect hand to do it with especially after villain basically starts crying that he didn't realize hero stack size. You know on account of hero hiding them.
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Old 05-29-2017, 11:58 PM   #158
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re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by zachvac View Post
I don't think anyone said this. But the issue is how do you set up the rules such that you can protect amateurs from this without setting up even bigger angles?
the floor should just decide that those chips dont play, its simple. the floor made a big mistake by allowing those chips to play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cicakman View Post
Wrong. Are you people who keep saying this just that dumb? He isn't setting up the angle for this specific hand, just having it as an option when the right situation comes up. AQ becomes a perfect hand to do it with especially after villain basically starts crying that he didn't realize hero stack size. You know on account of hero hiding them.
exactly. hes not waiting for AQ to do this with he's angling for any hand to do it with.

the way this hand plays out is totally scummy on alecs part and its apparent the way he moved his chips to the front he knew at that point at least that he had done something wrong. if he leaves those chips there and then calls, the floor and dealer probably dont allow it to play. he moves them forward like they were there all along. trying to obfuscate the situation.

Last edited by Rich Checkmaker; 05-30-2017 at 12:03 AM.
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Old 05-30-2017, 12:51 AM   #159
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re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

It's almost certainly an angle. Otherwise, not only would he have to put the chips there accidentally, but also not realize he did so after the other player says he didn't see the extra 10k. He acts oblivious to the fact that they hidden when responding to the other player and talking to the floor. If he had said, "Oh sorry I think those chips might have accidentally been hidden", that would be a lot less suspicious, but instead when talking to the floor he jumps to the incorrect conclusion that "he misread my stack". A smart and supposedly compassionate guy like him sure is quick to jump to an incorrect conclusion to another person's detriment, that's weird.

Then take into consideration that he moves the chips in view instantly when called and then awkwardly hovers one hand, the entire motion is suspicious as hell. Sure that can happen every so often, but it would be quite a coincidence that it happens at the exact same time of the other two things mentioned.
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Old 05-30-2017, 02:10 AM   #160
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re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

I think you fail to realize that the "hidden" chips cannot be played only when alec wants them to play. They are in play at all times. This mistake could have easily worked against him.
Unrelated side note.
AQ is almost never good in that situation.
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Old 05-30-2017, 02:17 AM   #161
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re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robot9999 View Post
I think you fail to realize that the "hidden" chips cannot be played only when alec wants them to play. They are in play at all times. This mistake could have easily worked against him.
Unrelated side note.
AQ is almost never good in that situation.
If your opponent makes a decision based on false information it tends to your favor.
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Old 05-30-2017, 03:32 AM   #162
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re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

AQ looks pretty good facing a backraise when your opponent misreads your stack for 10k and makes it obvious.
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Old 05-30-2017, 04:59 AM   #163
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re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

So has anyone gone back to check the broadcast and see how they got there? Like, have they been hidden behind the small red stack for the last hour or did he just win the last pot and pull that red stack in and inadvertently push the big chips out of sight? Pretty easy to toss accusations around based on the clip but the full broadcast should be easily seen and the history of those $5k chips will she's a lot more light on the intention one way or the other.
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Old 05-30-2017, 05:02 AM   #164
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re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

The question is how did Daniel Wolf even buy into this game? His tournament win results combined barely cover the buy ins of some of the people in the game.
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Old 05-30-2017, 05:14 AM   #165
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re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

WTF does is matter what someone's tournament results are when playing a cash game? There are professional players that play these stakes who have less in tournament earnings.
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Old 05-30-2017, 05:28 AM   #166
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re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robot9999 View Post
I think you fail to realize that the "hidden" chips cannot be played only when alec wants them to play. They are in play at all times. This mistake could have easily worked against him.
Unrelated side note.
AQ is almost never good in that situation.
How, how on earth could an opponent underestimating his stack size ever work against him?
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Old 05-30-2017, 06:15 AM   #167
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re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

Say Alec had 77 on that hand and Wolf had AA. Both have 20k. Assume he would call 10k preflop with 77, but would fold to a 20k preflop re-raise. Wolf says " all in" thinking he is betting 10k, when in reality he is betting 20k. Alec folds 77 and misses the chance to stack the Wolf when the 7 shows up on the flop.
In that situation, the misread caused Wolf to bet more than he normally would have and win the hand.
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Old 05-30-2017, 06:29 AM   #168
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re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

^
lol no comment
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Old 05-30-2017, 06:31 AM   #169
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re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

You're describing a situation that works in favor of Alec but whatever.
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Old 05-30-2017, 06:36 AM   #170
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re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robot9999 View Post
Say Alec had 77 on that hand and Wolf had AA. Both have 20k. Assume he would call 10k preflop with 77, but would fold to a 20k preflop re-raise. Wolf says " all in" thinking he is betting 10k, when in reality he is betting 20k. Alec folds 77 and misses the chance to stack the Wolf when the 7 shows up on the flop.
In that situation, the misread caused Wolf to bet more than he normally would have and win the hand.
Based on your other posts I don't think you are joking or trolling here but I'm still not going to reply to your post exactly as it's results oriented craziness.

The point is that it's more likely that Alec would make it 2800 w a 10K stack than with a 20K stack when holding 77, in which situation it would be correct to shove A8+.

But lets not derail the thread trying to explain how this "mistake" is incredibly beneficial to Alec when it's about whether or not it's an (intentional) angle.
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Old 05-30-2017, 06:48 AM   #171
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re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robot9999 View Post
Inadvertent angle. Nothing to see here. Put away pitchforks.
+1
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Old 05-30-2017, 07:09 AM   #172
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re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

Wow this is gross. This goes way beyond an accidental placement of 5k chips. The chips are completely hidden from most of the table's view, not at all "on top or in front" as they are supposed to be. Compounding matters, Torelli whips them out, asks, "did you not know?" with a tone that to me suggests he's willing to work out a deal due to a misunderstanding (while simultaneously indicating that it's Wolf's fault, not his own, that his stack was misread), and then uses the information he gets when Wolf answers to make a call. He keeps claiming, "I don't know if it will affect my decision." lol wtf are you talking about? Think the range that jams 25k into a 4k pot is any different than the range that jams 15k?
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Old 05-30-2017, 10:31 AM   #173
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re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvis View Post
Yes.
Okay. I mean, I'm the first to advocate that each player protects himself. But this angle, intentional or not, only works if the floor enables it. Seems much better and easier to simply deny the angler.
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Old 05-30-2017, 11:20 AM   #174
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re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

And the floor made a poor decision, that can always happen. Not only is it angleshoots you need to protect yourself against but also you could make an honest mistake yourself. Just ask "do you have any big chips?" and 99% of the time you will get a quick answer.
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Old 05-30-2017, 12:14 PM   #175
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re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

When I went to a casino to play live poker for the first time, I was a bit paranoid about people stealing my chips when I went to the bathroom, or "gotcha" games where experienced players might use obscure rules to kill my hand or somehow screw me over. Friends assured me that I was being ridiculous and that's it's a perfectly safe environment.

If instead they had showed me this thread, I might have stayed home.
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