It's the sneaky look on his face as he glances up that gives it away.
****bag

That looks pretty bad.

Anyone who processes this and doesn't think he was doing it on purpose is too naive and will fall for angles constantly.

I'm baffled as to why he chose to do this on a televised / Internet broadcasted cash game. I thought poker was all about picking your spot!

I wonder if he's ever going to address the controversy.

he slunk away silently the last time he was publicly called out for impropriety, no reason to believe he'll do anything but ignore it this time

Yeah pretty slim he addresses this. As someone else said it's incredibly lol to do this on a live game.

Inb4 "why would I ever do this if I knew I was being filmed" is used as an excuse.

He hides them behind his stack and then snap moves then forward after.

Wow - what a bag.

Hey, cut the furtive shifty cheating bastard some slack, he needs to make $10M to reach his self imposed target, and he never mentioned that he did not have to avoid HIDING HIS BIG CHIPS TO DELIBERATELY MISLEAD OPPONENTS ABOUT HIS STACK SIZE.

There are other ways to make $10 million that do not involve cheating at poker.

Where can I learn more about the other instance?

Dude is shadier than an oak tree, that Staying Alive outfit just makes it darker.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...tions-1141815/

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/19...-debt-1119274/

Typical Torelli, hiding his big chips by using his feet to stick them up his posterior.

Obviously Alec's history means we probably shouldn't give him the benefit of the doubt, but this has always been a rule that seems odd to me. In cash particularly, dealers aren't great about enforcing this rule and despite what some people are saying, a pretty good chunk of players in the games I play have their 1k/5k chips either at the bottom of a stack or to the side (similar to Alec here but usually not as hidden). I think most have them in a stack on their own in front or else on top, but this isn't some phenomenon that is super rare or definitely an angle. Every time you get into a spot where stack size matters, it's a simple question "no 5k's right?" and 99% of the time they'll either show you chips or tell you no. It slows the game down way less than the guy who everyone knows is folding to the all-in but takes 2 minutes and hems and haws before doing it. And the fact that the result is usually what happened here, it's not victim blaming to say you should probably get a quick confirmation on stack sizes before acting (if he lies the floor should be able to actually do something).

It's just that any other rule modification I can think of just opens up more angles or else is unnecessarily harsh and punishes recs who mess up and accidentally misplace chips, so not really sure what an appropriate solution would be for this other than to tell people to make sure you know how much your opponents have before taking an action assuming they have a certain stack size.

Hold up. You think Wolf should have literally turned to Alec and asked, "No 5k chips, right?" before shoving in this spot?

Maybe if he thought Alec is a huge angle shooter he would.

I think this is a relatively wishy washy accusation. You'd expect someone in a TV game to have their big chips at the front

Never played in a TV game but played a decent amount of 10/25 and 25/50 live and that's completely standard. "you're playing about 15k right?" "25kish actually" or something like that. It takes literally 5 seconds. And to someone who mentioned it affecting non allin situations I've had that happen plenty as well: someone 3-bets, someone asks how much they're playing, they answer, the rest of the hand plays out. Why do people think that's so outrageous?

out of curiosity, what happens if the dude lies and says, "yea, 15k" when he has 25k, and then action proceeds from there?

I've never actually had that happen, most people are actually pretty honest in that situation but my understanding is the floor can then actually do something about it, such as give them the 10k back and probably ban the offender for at least 24 hours, or permanently if he did it regularly.

The dealer actually couldn't even see the 5k chips herself. There a difference between having them at the bottom of your stack and having them surrounded by towers. I agree, the victim holds some responsibility in not letting himself get angled, but that doesn't make Torelli any less of a scumbag. There are still naive and inexperienced players out there, and sometimes people forget about hidden large denomination chips in the heat of the moment

Yes.

I think it takes quite a bit of mental gymnastics to reason that the unscrupulous professional made an innocent mistake, while the amateur victim is at fault for not having mastered the nuances of live poker.

if anyone here, who plays poker seriously for significant stakes, thinks either the dealer, floor, suits, fellow players, runners, waitresses, porters,etc. are looking out for them or their best interest, better wake up or find another profession.

anyone who's played poker long enough knows - don't assume, make certain. "do you have any big chips?" is a common question that can be asked anytime during a hand, and no one should object to it for any reasons.(especially something as stupid as it makes that hand play out longer)

there are scumbags in poker. ldo

I don't think anyone said this. But the issue is how do you set up the rules such that you can protect amateurs from this without setting up even bigger angles?

The victim doesn't have to be at fault to do something dumb. He didn't make sure AT didn't have big chips anywhere, that's dumb regardless of what AT did. He should also not immediately go "OH MY GAWWWWD YOU HAD MORE BEHIND I DIDN'T SEE THAT" when he saw the chips, he gave away a lot while he could have calmly asked the floor what the ruling here is. That's also dumb, doesn't mean he is at fault for this.