Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

News, Views, and Gossip For poker news, views, and gossip

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-27-2017, 09:33 AM   #126
epcfast
veteran
 
epcfast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,005
re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

It's the sneaky look on his face as he glances up that gives it away.
****bag
epcfast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2017, 11:40 AM   #127
andrew12341231
grinder
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 430
re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

That looks pretty bad.
andrew12341231 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2017, 12:03 PM   #128
cicakman
banned
 
cicakman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 9,231
re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulwaxical View Post
+1 Waited for the action to fold to him and then tried to calmly move the chips into view as if they'd been there the whole time.

Anyone who processes this and doesn't think he was doing it on purpose is too naive and will fall for angles constantly.
cicakman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2017, 12:21 PM   #129
Dick Tracy
grinder
 
Dick Tracy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 498
re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

I'm baffled as to why he chose to do this on a televised / Internet broadcasted cash game. I thought poker was all about picking your spot!

I wonder if he's ever going to address the controversy.
Dick Tracy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2017, 03:08 PM   #130
+rep_lol
El Guapo
 
+rep_lol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,089
re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

he slunk away silently the last time he was publicly called out for impropriety, no reason to believe he'll do anything but ignore it this time
+rep_lol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2017, 03:11 PM   #131
Labax
old hand
 
Labax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: "Wait what happened on flop again?"
Posts: 1,893
re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

Yeah pretty slim he addresses this. As someone else said it's incredibly lol to do this on a live game.

Inb4 "why would I ever do this if I knew I was being filmed" is used as an excuse.

He hides them behind his stack and then snap moves then forward after.
Labax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2017, 03:26 PM   #132
harkin
adept
 
harkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Tahoe
Posts: 740
re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

Wow - what a bag.
harkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2017, 04:31 PM   #133
Jay Why
centurion
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lundun
Posts: 151
re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

Hey, cut the furtive shifty cheating bastard some slack, he needs to make $10M to reach his self imposed target, and he never mentioned that he did not have to avoid HIDING HIS BIG CHIPS TO DELIBERATELY MISLEAD OPPONENTS ABOUT HIS STACK SIZE.
Jay Why is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2017, 04:50 PM   #134
jpgiro
grinder
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Your gateway to the plains
Posts: 607
re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Why View Post
Hey, cut the furtive shifty cheating bastard some slack, he needs to make $10M to reach his self imposed target, and he never mentioned that he did not have to avoid HIDING HIS BIG CHIPS TO DELIBERATELY MISLEAD OPPONENTS ABOUT HIS STACK SIZE.
There are other ways to make $10 million that do not involve cheating at poker.
Spoiler:
jpgiro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2017, 07:58 PM   #135
Dick Tracy
grinder
 
Dick Tracy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 498
re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by +rep_lol View Post
he slunk away silently the last time he was publicly called out for impropriety, no reason to believe he'll do anything but ignore it this time
Where can I learn more about the other instance?
Dick Tracy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2017, 08:03 PM   #136
magking1
grinder
 
magking1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 484
re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

Dude is shadier than an oak tree, that Staying Alive outfit just makes it darker.
magking1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2017, 08:09 PM   #137
SrslySirius
Animated Character
 
SrslySirius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,416
re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Tracy View Post
Where can I learn more about the other instance?
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...tions-1141815/

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/19...-debt-1119274/
SrslySirius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2017, 03:36 PM   #138
Jay Why
centurion
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lundun
Posts: 151
re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by LOLCh1pPorn View Post
Typical Torelli, hiding his big chips by using his feet to stick them up his posterior.
Jay Why is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2017, 01:12 PM   #139
zachvac
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
zachvac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,726
re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

Obviously Alec's history means we probably shouldn't give him the benefit of the doubt, but this has always been a rule that seems odd to me. In cash particularly, dealers aren't great about enforcing this rule and despite what some people are saying, a pretty good chunk of players in the games I play have their 1k/5k chips either at the bottom of a stack or to the side (similar to Alec here but usually not as hidden). I think most have them in a stack on their own in front or else on top, but this isn't some phenomenon that is super rare or definitely an angle. Every time you get into a spot where stack size matters, it's a simple question "no 5k's right?" and 99% of the time they'll either show you chips or tell you no. It slows the game down way less than the guy who everyone knows is folding to the all-in but takes 2 minutes and hems and haws before doing it. And the fact that the result is usually what happened here, it's not victim blaming to say you should probably get a quick confirmation on stack sizes before acting (if he lies the floor should be able to actually do something).

It's just that any other rule modification I can think of just opens up more angles or else is unnecessarily harsh and punishes recs who mess up and accidentally misplace chips, so not really sure what an appropriate solution would be for this other than to tell people to make sure you know how much your opponents have before taking an action assuming they have a certain stack size.
zachvac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2017, 01:16 PM   #140
albedoa
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,449
re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

Hold up. You think Wolf should have literally turned to Alec and asked, "No 5k chips, right?" before shoving in this spot?
albedoa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2017, 02:42 PM   #141
Labax
old hand
 
Labax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: "Wait what happened on flop again?"
Posts: 1,893
re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by albedoa View Post
Hold up. You think Wolf should have literally turned to Alec and asked, "No 5k chips, right?" before shoving in this spot?
Maybe if he thought Alec is a huge angle shooter he would.

I think this is a relatively wishy washy accusation. You'd expect someone in a TV game to have their big chips at the front
Labax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2017, 03:31 PM   #142
zachvac
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
zachvac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,726
re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

Never played in a TV game but played a decent amount of 10/25 and 25/50 live and that's completely standard. "you're playing about 15k right?" "25kish actually" or something like that. It takes literally 5 seconds. And to someone who mentioned it affecting non allin situations I've had that happen plenty as well: someone 3-bets, someone asks how much they're playing, they answer, the rest of the hand plays out. Why do people think that's so outrageous?
zachvac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2017, 03:37 PM   #143
Sooga
veteran
 
Sooga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: guitarding it up
Posts: 2,947
re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by zachvac View Post
Never played in a TV game but played a decent amount of 10/25 and 25/50 live and that's completely standard. "you're playing about 15k right?" "25kish actually" or something like that. It takes literally 5 seconds. And to someone who mentioned it affecting non allin situations I've had that happen plenty as well: someone 3-bets, someone asks how much they're playing, they answer, the rest of the hand plays out. Why do people think that's so outrageous?
out of curiosity, what happens if the dude lies and says, "yea, 15k" when he has 25k, and then action proceeds from there?
Sooga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2017, 03:41 PM   #144
zachvac
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
zachvac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,726
re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sooga View Post
out of curiosity, what happens if the dude lies and says, "yea, 15k" when he has 25k, and then action proceeds from there?
I've never actually had that happen, most people are actually pretty honest in that situation but my understanding is the floor can then actually do something about it, such as give them the 10k back and probably ban the offender for at least 24 hours, or permanently if he did it regularly.
zachvac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2017, 04:04 PM   #145
NoExit
centurion
 
NoExit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: South FL
Posts: 167
re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by zachvac View Post
Obviously Alec's history means we probably shouldn't give him the benefit of the doubt, but this has always been a rule that seems odd to me. In cash particularly, dealers aren't great about enforcing this rule and despite what some people are saying, a pretty good chunk of players in the games I play have their 1k/5k chips either at the bottom of a stack or to the side (similar to Alec here but usually not as hidden). I think most have them in a stack on their own in front or else on top, but this isn't some phenomenon that is super rare or definitely an angle. Every time you get into a spot where stack size matters, it's a simple question "no 5k's right?" and 99% of the time they'll either show you chips or tell you no. It slows the game down way less than the guy who everyone knows is folding to the all-in but takes 2 minutes and hems and haws before doing it. And the fact that the result is usually what happened here, it's not victim blaming to say you should probably get a quick confirmation on stack sizes before acting (if he lies the floor should be able to actually do something).

It's just that any other rule modification I can think of just opens up more angles or else is unnecessarily harsh and punishes recs who mess up and accidentally misplace chips, so not really sure what an appropriate solution would be for this other than to tell people to make sure you know how much your opponents have before taking an action assuming they have a certain stack size.
The dealer actually couldn't even see the 5k chips herself. There a difference between having them at the bottom of your stack and having them surrounded by towers. I agree, the victim holds some responsibility in not letting himself get angled, but that doesn't make Torelli any less of a scumbag. There are still naive and inexperienced players out there, and sometimes people forget about hidden large denomination chips in the heat of the moment

NoExit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2017, 04:07 PM   #146
Kelvis
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,980
re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by albedoa View Post
Hold up. You think Wolf should have literally turned to Alec and asked, "No 5k chips, right?" before shoving in this spot?
Yes.
Kelvis is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2017, 04:15 PM   #147
SrslySirius
Animated Character
 
SrslySirius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,416
re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

I think it takes quite a bit of mental gymnastics to reason that the unscrupulous professional made an innocent mistake, while the amateur victim is at fault for not having mastered the nuances of live poker.
SrslySirius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2017, 04:35 PM   #148
nih han
adept
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: la la land
Posts: 1,073
re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

if anyone here, who plays poker seriously for significant stakes, thinks either the dealer, floor, suits, fellow players, runners, waitresses, porters,etc. are looking out for them or their best interest, better wake up or find another profession.

anyone who's played poker long enough knows - don't assume, make certain. "do you have any big chips?" is a common question that can be asked anytime during a hand, and no one should object to it for any reasons.(especially something as stupid as it makes that hand play out longer)

there are scumbags in poker. ldo
nih han is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2017, 04:45 PM   #149
zachvac
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
zachvac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,726
re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by SrslySirius View Post
I think it takes quite a bit of mental gymnastics to reason that the unscrupulous professional made an innocent mistake, while the amateur victim is at fault for not having mastered the nuances of live poker.
I don't think anyone said this. But the issue is how do you set up the rules such that you can protect amateurs from this without setting up even bigger angles?
zachvac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2017, 04:57 PM   #150
Kelvis
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,980
re: Alec Torelli Caught Angleshooting

The victim doesn't have to be at fault to do something dumb. He didn't make sure AT didn't have big chips anywhere, that's dumb regardless of what AT did. He should also not immediately go "OH MY GAWWWWD YOU HAD MORE BEHIND I DIDN'T SEE THAT" when he saw the chips, he gave away a lot while he could have calmly asked the floor what the ruling here is. That's also dumb, doesn't mean he is at fault for this.
Kelvis is online now   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online