This was 100% an angle. I re-watched the video a few times and he had to literally reach behind his chips to grab the big ones. Super scumbag move IMO. He owes the guy $10k.

If he had them hidden in a cup holder on the railing they would only slightly be more hidden... Come on man.
Anyone not seated in 1,2,3 can't possibly see those chips.

And anyone who's played even $1/2 knows that after like 2-3 hands of not having big chips on top the dealer is going to address it.
If you're raking in a pot, get your next hand, and the chips are clearly delegated that's one thing... Alec has towers, and then big chips obviously placed in the middle where they can't be seen.

Clearly he's not stupid, I mean could it be a huge lapse, maybe? But that doesn't mean it's right.

So just every single hand you have to annoying ask if the player(s) in the pot have secret chips?
When that could be solved by simply abiding by the easy-universal rule of big chips on top or clearly out in front.

And just because Alec usually sits deep doesn't mean you just always assume he has to have more chips somewhere

I have been hating on Alec Torelli for a long time so this feels good. After observing that fluffy haired wolf kid for 30 seconds I can see that he is much more charismatic than Torelli. But why would Torelli angle so hard on camera!? Is he trying to subtly teach his subs how to angle?

I have just deleted a bunch of posts related to Zima421. They are a derail of this thread.

If anyone wants to discuss the Zima421 situation, they are encouraged to post in the NVG Moderation thread:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...9/index53.html

or start a thread in the About The Forums forum:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/55/about-forums/

Thank you very much for your consideration and cooperation.

why didnt wolf ask to take chips back?

not convinced this was on purpose

Is AQo really a hand you angle with preflop? Even if you induce someone to 4bet shove for what he thinks is ~50bb instead of 100bb+ you're not exactly fist pumping while calling, are you?

You think the chips changed location instantly when he saw AQo? And that they still wouldn't have been there postflop? jfc. This isn't about him having AQo and angling to get someone to put it in preflop.

why is jesus involved in this?

Does this topic really heighten your level of emotion? Let us know why you are so fired up.

I've spent quite a lot of time online in my life and I'm still amazed at the bizarreness of arguments and thoughts I encounter. The guy I quoted's thought that people would imply this was an angle to get AQo in, qualifies as one of those stupid and bizarre thoughts. Which gets me somewhat riled up, yea.

AQ is a pretty good hand you can hit a queen or ace and it is probably top pair

Pro anglers leave their big chips right out front until they get aces. Then they cough loudly to create a diversion while hiding them in the back.

Absolute ammeter hour going on. Before you go all in you say...

"you have about $10k right Alec?"

Angle or no angle it's absolutely inexcusable, speshly from an experienced player. No-one to blame but yourself here DW.

Idk, seems to me he knew what he was doing when as soon as Wolf shoved he grabbed the gray chips and held them up... Seemed to be on his mind

So during the WSOP this year be sure you ask every single villain before you go all in to make sure they are not hiding big chips. It is your duty to ask. It is not up to villain to have the large denomination chips visible. You must ask!

Is this really what people are arguing here?? Talk about slowing down the pace of the game.

You're right, just guess how much the effective stack is when you go all in, makes for a better game for everyone.

Not just before all ins. You need to know effective SPR at all points in the hand, especially in MTTs.

So every time the action is to you, make sure to ask for a full count from each player still in the hand. Be extra thorough on the bubble and before large pay jumps.

Def not a fan of Alec's, but I don't think he purposefully hid the big chips--sometimes that **** just happens. Some ppl point to the fact that he instantly pulled them out as some sort of proof, but I think he was just surprised by the amount of the raise and wanted to see if the guy saw them.

When it was obvious the other guy didn't, he made a huge mistake by betraying the weakness of his hand.

As others have mentioned, the ethical thing to do would've been for Alec to take the 10k back, and the two played for whatever was left, without further betting.

But Alec isn't ethical, he's scummy snake oil salesman. So instead he pretended like he has to think about a call he instantly knew he'd make, and took advantage of the other guy's **** up.

lol i thought you dont have to pay big denom hidden chips. its never happened to me, as id never **** up my habit of asking always, but still.

so if he just hid those under his stack, the other guy has to pay? disgusting rule/floor.

How can anybody argue that "he should take back 10k"? It's the floors decision.

If he is going to decide for himself then the other guy is going on monkey tilt if he has KK instead of AT. If he is going to ask whether he wants the 10k to be on the table then the other guy has to reveal information that Alec can use before he calls. If he wants the extra 10k to play what do you think that means, that he wants to torch another 10k with AT? If he says "nah leave it it's fine", is that anything else than a big hand? If he lets the hand play and give back 10k when he wins the pot, that's just dumb because there is no way in hell the other dude would give back 10k when he wins it.

Can anyone who thinks this is a good option explain to me why this would be fair?

No, this is why all players should have large denomination chips out front, so we don't have to guess if they are hiding chips and we don't have to ask about their chips and slow down the pace of the game.

The level of victim blaming in this thread is disgusting but most poker players are scum bags so I am not too surprised.

What's the approx bb/100 edge gained by having 10k chips hidden like this?

~$10 million imo