No, I think it'd be more similar to someone ordering pizza from Domino's, sitting at home eating it while live streaming or making a youtube video and trashing how bad it tastes.

Banning said person from Domino's still seems extreme to me in this context.

Man. All this drama makes me want to get banned from ACR so badly.

Yes, I wasn't quoting anything that you've actually said. It's a made up composite of things that you've said (quotes below), and how you could have gone about asking the others in the bullpen on what they think of Jonathan Little.

"We don't like Jonathan Little either, but it does seem like you're stealing his money."

"Fine, you're entitled to your opinion. But that's exactly how we feel about him."

"You're correct. My complaints about Little have nothing to do with this. But some people are aware that he's a person we're not fond of so I just put it out there in case I post anything critical of him."

"To be perfectly honest, you're not someone we think about at all and have no objection to you being successful."

"We is those of us in 2+2 management and we got tired of his insults towards us."

Perhaps Little has insulted you &/or 2+2 over the years - I have no idea - but the first I've seen of it was in this thread; which I took as him guessing as to why you guys might not like him (his speculating) rather than him insulting you or 2+2. In other words, I don't see any links citing any bashing that he's directed towards you or this site; though it's possible that you do have links with examples, or that you've heard about it through various sources rather than anything he's posted online.

I'm assuming that you think that Little has a history of making stuff up, but I don't think that just the FullTilt rakeback/sponsorship deal alone disqualifies him from anything he does/says since that point in time, especially since he still owns up to his mistake today.

In post #65, you're essentially telling members to read (or reread) his post #58, which will clearly tell you why you don't like him. All I get is that you're unaware of his claims in #58, you're more fair & balanced than he's giving you credit for in your reviews - specifically with D&B books - you have no problem that he's successful without Two+Two Publishing, but again, I don't know what he did prior to this thread - since you make it sound like he's not on your radar - for you and others you work with, to dislike him.

I'm not saying you're unjustified for not liking him, I just wanted to know what your exact reasons are. I was thinking of Little as being more of an ambassador-type as it relates to poker. Overlooking the FullTilt S&G/rakeback fiasco of course.

I agree that Nagy looks somewhat bad given the way he has handled this. But by handling it this way he has made Little look quite bad. Specifically, Little has claimed that he only said he was warning his viewers to be careful playing on an unregulated site. But other posters have stated that Little was constantly being critical of ACR for many reasons. And, if this was the case, it makes Little appear untruthful and not trustworthy. Perhaps this is what Nagy wanted and he was willing to pay the price to do this.

Mason

Nicholas James gets inspiration from Will Jaffe in this new #toughconvo

If you read Post #65 you’ll see that I said several times responding to something that Little wrote that I tell him I never said that. (Ann you apparently missed this.) And if you check my posts above that you’ll see that this is the case, and I’m not inclined to be positive towards people who claim that I said things which I never said and who then go on to explain what’s wrong with what I never said.

Also, his story about us rejecting his book is completely ridiculous. We never reviewed a manuscript from Little and at that time had no idea who he was. By the way, if there was any truth to this story Little should be the one who is mad since 2+2 authors made about five times the amount of royalties as they made from other publishers.

Mason

I did read it Mason.

I just wanted to see some sort of evidence that he has a history of making stuff up - directed at you - prior to this thread, that made you feel like you had to fire the initial salvo on Twitter. I'm not saying you're wrong btw.

Hi Mason,

Just to clarify, I did not submit a manuscript. I apologize if there was a misunderstanding, given you seem to think I turned in an entire manuscript, which I did not. I presented a series of ideas through pm, you corrected my grammar, told me to meet you in person at the WSOP, and then at the WSOP shooed me away after a brief one-minute talk. Due to the clear lack of interest, I did not follow up.

Also, given you view me as irrelevant, it would be great if you would stop frequently bringing up my work in interviews, on 2+2, and replying about things (such as this thread) that you know little to nothing about. Rest assured that I will continue not mentioning you or discussing you in any way to anyone. With any luck, our paths will not cross again and we will both prosper. I wish you the best.

Go to one of posts in this thread. Click on his name, click on find more posts by FieryJustice, go back to the second half of 2015, and start reading. And for starters, here's a few posts to read:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...&postcount=319

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...&postcount=321

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...&postcount=322

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...&postcount=327

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...&postcount=329

MM

And an already great thread just keeps getting better and better.

Mason,

Is there anyone who has published a poker book either with another publisher or self-published that you have a high opinion of? I honestly have never seen you praise someone in that situation, but I admit that I don't follow it closely.

It's absolutely baffling to me that anyone is defending ACR here, other than saying they have a legal right which nobody is questioning. Have you ever criticized your isp or amazon or google or Microsoft on the internet? How would you feel about a lifelong ban from your ISP or Google, because you said "comcast sucks" or "Google sucks" on the internet? It's just absolutely ridiculous business behavior.

Also, his response video is absurd. "I felt like I was backed into a corner." Have you thought about....not watching Jonathan Little's streams if you don't like what he's saying?

Majority of the public names i've seen 'defending' ACR come across as trying to suck up to nagy / not jepordize their own future with site etc etc , always a (not so hidden) motive.

I would think most of these players who are so quick to say businesses have a right not to serve some trash talking customer!!!! would all be very pissed off if they got banned from any of their main sites for saying anything negative about them publicly.

Go stand in a Chipotle and scream that Chipotle causes the runs, and that it's the worst restaurant to every person that walks in and see how long you get to stay. Until you do this and prove they never kick you out please stop pretending that every business isn't going to do this if you manage to get on their radar with this level of criticism.

Okay. I have received over the years so many PMs that it's impossible for me to remember them all. But on 6/11/2008 this PM did come from you:

on 6/13/08, here was my reply:

You responded on 6/8/13:

My reply on 6/13/18:

On 6/14/08 Little replied:

And, as far as I can tell that's the end of our correspondence. Also, 2008 was the only year we had a booth at the WSOP. While it kept us very busy, we felt that it wasn't worth doing again. Also, I have no memory of you coming by and/or having any conversation with you. But a lot of people did come by the booth during the four days we were there and I don't remember the large majority of who I talked to. And as you said, we certainly never received a manuscript from you to review.

Over the I've done very few interviews. The only time I've done some was to talk about my psychology book which came out at the end of 2015, and my history book which came this year. You were probably mentioned in the psychology book interviews since you're a co-author with Patricia Cardner (though she's the main author) and let's say I didn't think highly of the first Cardner book (and that's the only one I read).

I found this interesting and I'm sure I was one of the first to say that you should get your money back. And I believe I said this (on twitter) before Nagy said you would get your money back. Perhaps the comments from me helped to pursuade him to make sure the refund would come to you. (But that's something neither of us would know.) Also, I think you should carefully listen to the video in Post #133, and I don't know Nicholas James at all.

Do what you want. I don't care.

I think this is a point you don't understand. I'm past retirement age and my career is coming to a close. In addition, 2+2 was successful beyond our wildest dreams, and, of course, a great poker boom was helpful in this regard. Also, I keep doing some of this stuff since it has stayed interesting to me, but I do strongly think that our history book is the last book, along with my co-author Antonio Carrasco, that I'll be writing.

also, in Post #58 you wrote:

Of course, we now know that you never submitted a manuscript to us, so we never turned down your book. and, most important, we never made a decision not to publish your book.

And just so you know, we first became significantly unhappy with you when you began to attack me and my book, Real Poker Psychology, in the later half of 2015. See Post #137 for some examples. Apparently, you weren't happy with my view on exactly what real poker psychology is and that the stuff you associated yourself with was, in my opinion, extremely inaccurate.

And in Post #136 above, you wrote:

And this is what you do. I never said that I thought you "turned in an entire manuscript" or any part of a manuscript. Why do you say stuff like this when there is no truth to it?

Anyway, to finish up, the last thing you wrote in the main post I was addressing was along the lines of wishing that we both prosper and also wishing me the best. This sure seems strange. Are you now trying to make up and be friends? Again, what you do is of no concern to me.

Mason

Don't know who this guy is or who Will Jaffe is, but my guess is he works for ACR or receives benefits from the site in some way. As an outside observer who doesn't really care about either side, my impression is that he sounds like a total shill.

I guess these guys would prefer to live in China where the government will 'ban' you for saying negative things about them.

What happened to people supporting free speech?

I get it, they're a business and they can do whatever they want. But is their business that fragile where they have to ban people for saying negative stuff?


Seems silly to me. Imagine Jeff Bezos banning people from Amazon for leaving a bad review. CEO lol. Dude is playing checkers. Just goes to show the level business online poker sites operate at.

Hi NoSoup:

Fair question, and why don't you find out for yourself. Here's a thread that contains my written reviews since 2004:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/3...views-1663503/

For earlier than 2004, you'll need to get a copy of my book Gambling Theory and Other Topics.

Best wishes,
Mason

Hi Mr. Spy:

I think you're missing something. If Little was, for instance, on 2+2 and was saying this stuff, as long as he was saying it in a non-insulting manner, it would be his opinion and that would be fine, and there would be nothing Nagy could do about it.

On the other hand, if he was streaming from ACR, and, according to some posters, was saying lots of this stuff, I think that's very different, and in my opinion that was Little's mistake. Perhaps you don't see it that way.

Best wishes,
Mason

It's certainly interesting that some people on twitter made excuses for Rob Young and others from Party for banning or threatening to ban people for badmouthing Party, now say something different when it's ACR.

The same can be said here on 2+2. A few weeks ago gg were completely within their rights to ban some players, now it's a bad look for ACR to do so.

I don't think I ever catched J.Little streaming on ACR, but if he's always badmouthing ACR on stream it's worse than someone tweeting something negative. Godard thought can be applied here of still vs moving image: cinema is truth 24fps. Stream, videos, etc are much more persistent than some post or tweet.

Of course I'm against any of these bans for the reasons given. Bad look for party, gg and now acr.

So you're saying it would've been fine as long as he didn't have the ACR client open when he spoke his opinion on his stream?

This type of banning I guess may be par for the course in the online poker industry, but seems like a bad practice to me. You don't really see it anywhere else.

It's not like Little was on the site harassing other players or cheating.

The Party situation was quite different as a player was allowed to compete in a tournament he couldn't win a prize in. I'm not sure if the 2nd place player was ever credited with the 1st place prize, but the player was initially going to be banned for asking if it was a scam and after much pressure, was refunded his entry into the tournament and never awarded the value of the 1st place he won.

Repeatedly saying on stream that they rig the runouts for shills is reasonable grounds for a ban. I believe he was joking but I'd bet many of his viewers thought he was being serious.

Phil's vulgar response on twitter was something no competent CEO would do, ainec. Definitely raises major red flags about the company if someone as irresponsible as that is the CEO. I think Phil most likely only decided to refund the money after he calmed down a bit, but was originally planning on stealing it, like many other unregulated sites like to do. If JL hadn't taken to twitter, he would still be waiting on a response from customer service.

As an American who works closely with the media industry – among the cultural areas most affected by the First Amendment – I cannot agree with you more. It really is one of my pet peeves.

But back to the subject...

I can't commend nor condemn Nagy for dropping a ban hammer on Mr. FieryJustice because I don't know what Jonathan has said about ACR in the past. Warranted or not, a ban is certainly within Nagy's rights. And most people seem to agree with this, including Little himself, so there's no reason belaboring it here.

I'm just not sure what a ban accomplishes, though.

If Jonathan is in fact bashing ACR on videos as Nagy claims, it is reasonable to expect that Jonathan can/will continue to do so during the post-ban era. Thus, if I may stretch the weird pizza analogy, it's like you take one of two paths:

a) You don't ban Jonathan, who continues visiting your store, buying pizza, then making videos talking about how awful your food is and that the health department has no oversight over your establishment.

b) You ban Jonathan, who then goes to your competitor, buys their pizza, then makes videos talking about how awful your food is and that the health department has no oversight over your establishment.

Neither outcome is optimal. In Scenario A, you're at least making some money, odd as it may be from a customer who claims not to enjoy the product. In Scenario B, you've lost the income but you'll feel better and sleep well that night. However, you didn't solve the larger problem of your business getting a bad name. So maybe a Scenario C would be to address the comments in a professional way or, you know, just make a better goddamn pie.

Instead, Nagy opted for a secret menu item, Scenario D: you ban Jonathan, then post your own video showing the act of defecating on Jonathan's final order before the ban. Sure, you'll feel MUCH better and sleep like a coma baby (a good BM often has this effect). But now you've added to the larger problem of your business getting a bad name.

Anyway, I don't play on ACR so I'm essentially guilty of what Jonathan accused Mason of doing: opining on something I don't know much about. My cheap-seat view of the site is that it is shady and unprofessional, and Nagy – while he was certainly within his rights as the business owner – did nothing to alter that perception.

Yeesh, I would hope they don't think this, but you never know. If Jonathan honestly and genuinely believed the site was rigged, he wouldn't be playing there. Then again, it's pretty amusing how often people don't hear irony, sarcasm or humor in a statement – especially if they want to believe the face-value version.

EXACTLY this. It's unreal. The site's business practices harken back to Full Tilt, while the overall professionalism of its leadership reminds me of the guys who started Absolute Poker way back when. It's quite possible I'm way off on both, but that sure as hell is the impression he gives off – not a good look to provide for a customer base that is already once bitten.