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Old 10-28-2016, 05:59 PM   #1401
oldsilver
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Re: "9 high like a boss" aka "Check your privilege"

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Originally Posted by PeteBlow View Post
No doubt the TD had an ESPN producer I his ear. The WSOP ME is a unique beast. Why do you think they have their own rules? If they were strictly going by TDA, they wouldn't get away with what they do. They can use their own interpretation.
You can only speculate, but there was a marked difference between Effels attitude towards Kassouf earlier in the event where he handed him a penalty, and the sugar coated handling he received on day 7.

I don't agree that WSOP rules allow more scope for etiquette breaches. The wsop rules and TDA rules regarding etiquette are almost identically worded. There are minor differences but the specific sections relating to etiquette appear to be the same. If anything, wsop rules are stronger; 47 & 48 are backed up by 113 & 116 and provide multiple avenues for TD staff to keep antisocial play in check.
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Old 10-28-2016, 09:48 PM   #1402
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Re: "9 high like a boss" aka "Check your privilege"

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You can only speculate, but there was a marked difference between Effels attitude towards Kassouf earlier in the event where he handed him a penalty, and the sugar coated handling he received on day 7.

I don't agree that WSOP rules allow more scope for etiquette breaches. The wsop rules and TDA rules regarding etiquette are almost identically worded. There are minor differences but the specific sections relating to etiquette appear to be the same. If anything, wsop rules are stronger; 47 & 48 are backed up by 113 & 116 and provide multiple avenues for TD staff to keep antisocial play in check.

Yesterday I didn't even know WSOP had its own rulebook, and today I are a expert!
fyp
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Old 10-28-2016, 10:59 PM   #1403
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Re: "9 high like a boss" aka "Check your privilege"

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i haven't read either document and I have nothing to contribute and no intelligent rebuttal to what oldsilver said so I'm going to type nonsense then say FYP
FYP
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Old 10-29-2016, 04:39 AM   #1404
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Re: "9 high like a boss" aka "Check your privilege"

That's exactly what I'm doing - rebutting.

I actually agree with many of your opinions in this thread, but I can't stand your disagreeable style of conversing. So I'm rebutting that by giving it right back to you.

Sir, you make our side look bad.
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Old 10-29-2016, 05:49 AM   #1405
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Re: "9 high like a boss" aka "Check your privilege"

i wish I was rich enough to play a 10K tournament without bothering to read the rules.
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Old 10-29-2016, 06:13 AM   #1406
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Re: "9 high like a boss" aka "Check your privilege"

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Originally Posted by Geezer Soze View Post
I'll be damned ..... a good idea posted in NVG.

The concept is sound, some of the details need to be refined. However, it would be effective.

It would not require legislative action as would have the messy idea of giving every player a single shot pistol, (to settle such matters as they would have been handled at a poker table in the Wild West.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J78J-6PbhVo
Thanks

Maybe some people can mention it to the WSOP.
Would be really cool if the WSOP would consider using the 'silent clock' idea .
Not sure if the silent clock should always be available (in addition to normal clock), or whether normal clock gets 'upgraded' to silent when necessary.
Yeah it needs some details refined, I'm sure they can work that one out.

btw that video was great, very amusing lol
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Old 10-29-2016, 06:25 AM   #1407
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Re: "9 high like a boss" aka "Check your privilege"

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Originally Posted by frommagio View Post
That's exactly what I'm doing - rebutting.

I actually agree with many of your opinions in this thread, but I can't stand your disagreeable style of conversing. So I'm rebutting that by giving it right back to you.

Sir, you make our side look bad.
lol, ok I confess
had the flu all week
i'm like a bear with a sore head

imo there's a good case for WSOP to review this closely and make a few decisions over the coming months to improve the game.

no-one likes systematic, strategic tanking and there should be some better policies and procedures in place for dealing with it.

it's clear that there are some grey areas there on the speech play, otherwise Jack wouldn't have been so reluctant to state and then progressively enforce the rules, specifically #47, #48, #113 and #116 all of which provide avenues to curb behaviour that was unsettling and disrespectful to the other players at the table.

I'd expect that both are under close review at present.

i do maintain that all decisions in relation to a tournament ruleset, its interpretation and implementation should be based solely on optimizing player experience and fairness, and hence any pressure to bring/encourage more volatile and disruptive elements into the game 'for the good of television' should be roundly condemned by the poker community.
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Old 10-29-2016, 06:44 AM   #1408
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Re: "9 high like a boss" aka "Check your privilege"

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Originally Posted by oldsilver View Post

it's clear that there are some grey areas there on the speech play, otherwise Jack wouldn't have been so reluctant to state and then progressively enforce the rules, specifically #47, #48, #113 and #116 all of which provide avenues to curb behaviour that was unsettling and disrespectful to the other players at the table.
Not sure how you can draw that conclusion.More likely he didn't have a clue these rules existed and just tried to bullsh:t his way through.
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Old 10-29-2016, 06:44 AM   #1409
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Re: "9 high like a boss" aka "Check your privilege"

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lol, ok I confess
had the flu all week
i'm like a bear with a sore head
Thank you for that, and cheers! You're a good person after all, and I hope you feel better.

Carry on!
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Old 10-29-2016, 08:11 AM   #1410
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Re: "9 high like a boss" aka "Check your privilege"

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Not sure how you can draw that conclusion.More likely he didn't have a clue these rules existed and just tried to bullsh:t his way through.
+1

Like the official who let the clock be called on Matuson when he personally thought it wasn't time and apparently wasn't aware he's allowed to say no.

Though IMHO the clock should not be this special exception that requires the intervention of the tournament director, the dealer should just start a timer themselves at the table - either on request of a player or just by themselves after about 10 seconds.

Obviously I play nightlies much lower but the dealer is just "it's on you, your action etc." when someone doesn't play in rhythm - the result is get in just about a full orbit in a 20 minute level - WSOP should also play this fast - the larger amount of money at stake is a reason to decide where it goes over a large number of hands, it's an argument against tanking not for it.
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Old 10-29-2016, 10:34 AM   #1411
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Re: "9 high like a boss" aka "Check your privilege"

Final 2 tables should be played hand for hand all the way down to FT with 50% extra time added to blind level, time wasting no longer increases your ev
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Old 10-29-2016, 11:57 AM   #1412
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Re: "9 high like a boss"

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To quote the great Nick Diaz, "Where I come from, ppl like that get slapped"
Only if they happen to be weaker though. Presumably nobody's going around slapping anyone who'll then turn around and break their jaw, right?
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Old 10-29-2016, 12:54 PM   #1413
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Re: "9 high like a boss" aka "Check your privilege"

Sam Greenwood thinks Jack Effel is biased and ineffective as well:

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Old 10-29-2016, 01:00 PM   #1414
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Re: "9 high like a boss" aka "Check your privilege"

I experimented with acting like Kassouf at Playground Poker Club, Montreal, last night (in the $100 + $25 bounty event). It started off friendly enough when I button raised 96o after the flop, got a fold, and stated/showed "9 high like a boss". The dealer laughed and got the reference, as did a couple of the mainly French Canadian players.

It went downhill after that, however, when players started getting upset at my "speech play" after a few hands; and one new guy to the table told me that I was the most annoying player he'd ever seen (after just 5 minutes at the table - I'd flopped the nuts and talked him into giving me half of his stack)!

The floor noticed the commotion and decided to break our table, out of turn, to reduce the tension. I told the guy, who knows me as a regular, that I was just joking around, but he said "we don't need any Kassouf behavior in here".

After a couple of very mild comments at a subsequent table, the floor guy told me he would give me a penalty if I continued to act up; and so it stopped there.

This just goes to show (a) how effective Kassouf's style is at tilting people to his benefit and (b) how TDs can easily police it out the game, if they wish.
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Old 10-29-2016, 02:32 PM   #1415
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Re: "9 high like a boss" aka "Check your privilege"

Clovis i'm still waiting

You patronize another poster saying you think "it's amusing" he thinks he knows what benger means, but then you get asked to explain what you think he meant and you can't bc what he said was stupid and made no sense
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Old 10-29-2016, 03:49 PM   #1416
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Re: "9 high like a boss" aka "Check your privilege"

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Originally Posted by Zpaceman View Post
This just goes to show (a) how effective Kassouf's style is at tilting people to his benefit and (b) how TDs can easily police it out the game, if they wish.
I think it also helped that they didn't move you to the tv table.
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Old 10-29-2016, 04:44 PM   #1417
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Re: "9 high like a boss" aka "Check your privilege"

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Originally Posted by oldsilver View Post
Stern received much flak for his tanking on last year's ft as did neuvelle. Suspect this is something that wsop will address in near future.
Stern's was so bad that they played hand for hand from ~13 down to 10. I'm sure people who were in earlier on day 7 would say they waited too long.
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Old 10-29-2016, 04:44 PM   #1418
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Re: "9 high like a boss" aka "Check your privilege"



A surprisingly fair assessment by Doug Polk. I expected him to walk the line like a shady politician, but he was objective. As a Kasouff fan, I agree excessive tanking is bad. However, I also think the rules enacted after Jamie Gold and Hevad Khan are not helpful to the growth of live poker.

I also think opponents can say whatever they want to their opponents even if the decision is on them. A change should be made to the rules. I mean grow up - either tune chatty players out, or chat back at them. Put your big boy pants on and play the game.

Unfortunately, the WSOP will most likely end up doing what they do best - implement more regulation, do their damnedest to stifle the growth of poker, and drive the final stake into it's already decaying body. Make no mistake, the WSOP does not care about poker, they care about suckling the nipples of popular pros so as to hope that some of that adoration will rub off on them. They will also tune out the ratings increase reported by ESPN - poker players at this year's WSOP could take a lesson from the tournament directors on tuning things out.
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Old 10-29-2016, 06:15 PM   #1419
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Re: "9 high like a boss" aka "Check your privilege"

Such an annoying douche, exactly like that annoying kid in school who thinks he is awesome but also knows nobody likes him but cant understand why. Highly likely his parents used to medicate him
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Old 10-29-2016, 06:56 PM   #1420
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Re: "9 high like a boss" aka "Check your privilege"

Re: Polk interview

I thought the first part of that interview that covered the 96 hand was very good.

The AA KK hand however seemed to disregard the fact that Kassouf was talking constantly about the strength of his hand and therefore did in fact breach the rules.

You can also make a strong argument that while any part of kassoufs speech play in isolation does not necessarily breach the rules, taken as a whole and given the sheer extent and volume, it amounts to excessive chatter.

it's also relevant that kassouf is repeatedly insisting that other players provide him with information even when they have indicated through their silence (or sometimes more directly) that they will not be providing it. The continued questions of benger throughout this hand and over what is reported to be an 18-20 minute tirade are excessively antisocial and can easily be considered abusive when taken to that extreme. ( Bengers response, incidentally, should most likely be taken as random word salad without the underlying subtitles, stop abusing me you prat, and I have considerable sympathy and don't believe it warrants much detailed analysis or discussion because he clearly just wanted the abuse to stop.)

In summary, I like the 96 analysis, don't agree with the AA KK analysis at all, and would like to have heard Polks thoughts on how to curtail tanking, rather than stating it's a problem, which we all know it is.
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Old 10-29-2016, 07:17 PM   #1421
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Re: "9 high like a boss" aka "Check your privilege"

*moved to separate thread

Last edited by oldsilver; 10-29-2016 at 07:44 PM. Reason: think action tracking is worth discussing as a separate topic
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Old 10-29-2016, 07:30 PM   #1422
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Re: "9 high like a boss" aka "Check your privilege"

i apologize for using the word trump..thx
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Old 10-29-2016, 07:31 PM   #1423
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Re: "9 high like a boss" aka "Check your privilege"

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Originally Posted by Zpaceman View Post
I experimented with acting like Kassouf at
This just goes to show (a) how effective Kassouf's style is at tilting people to his benefit and (b) how TDs can easily police it out the game, if they wish.
It also worked because (c) you're not an ass who continues to do it after he's been told not to.
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Old 10-29-2016, 07:51 PM   #1424
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Re: "9 high like a boss" aka "Check your privilege"

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Such an annoying douche, exactly like that annoying kid in school who thinks he is awesome but also knows nobody likes him but cant understand why. Highly likely his parents used to medicate him
I used to think so too, but I've grown to like Doug Polk. He puts on good stuff.
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Old 10-29-2016, 07:59 PM   #1425
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Re: "9 high like a boss" aka "Check your privilege"

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what is reported to be an 18-20 minute tirade .
If they didn't call a clock for 18 minutes, whose fault is that?!? I find that lacks credibility.

The rules are in place for a reduced clock, according to one of the TDs on the ESPN show ... they can shorten the clock after repeated offenses if the players ask for it. If they had simply asked for a shorter clock repeatedly and it wasn't given they'd have a complaint.
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