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Old 10-02-2016, 11:31 PM   #251
numberonedonk
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Re: "9 high like a boss"

Quote:
Originally Posted by StacyAcey View Post
I finished 169th out of 6770 players. This hand doesn't overshadow it for me.
Have you ever gone that deep?
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Old 10-03-2016, 12:24 AM   #252
A MTT PRO
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Re: "9 high like a boss"

It doesn't matter if Stacy's relationship with Jack affected his ruling, the fact that they have a working relationship IS the conflict of interest. I've taken at least three college level business ethics courses, and a conflict of interest is a conflict of interest regardless of whether or not it affected his decision. In other words Jack Effel should have removed himself from the situation and had someone else make a judgement. I don't think it changed his judgement, but by definition a conflict of interest was 100% present.

Other opinions of mine: Stacy had a bad attitude and demeanor in this thread in response to accusations and at the table in response to the clock being called. Basically calling us idiots for assuming her company was owned by Caesars when they are in fact owned by Caesars according to the WHOIS and who the site is registered to, etc.
Kassouf is annoying, but the more he talked the more I would be able to read him so I would love to be at his table. It was obvious to me when he wanted a call or a fold. If I were him in that situation where the TD gave me clear instructions I would have dropped it and STFU so I believe he deserved the penalty.
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Old 10-03-2016, 01:12 AM   #253
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Re: "9 high like a boss"

My thoughts on all of this.

Kassouf 's banter went overboard. But it worked, probably wasn't against any rules and he got the fold he desperately wanted. Success for him.

I don't see an issue with Stacey's decision to fold . She had to make a decision while being inundated with extremely animated discussion and appears to have made the wrong one. This should really only be an issue for her and no one else. It sucks but Kassouf definitely got the best of her there.

I also don't have a problem with her behavior. She was obviously affected by Kassouf 's discussion, the clock calling, and other distractins similar to how many players would likely be affected. Kassouf manages to continue on in an incessantly annoying manner, throws in some subtle goading, and then flips over an extraordinary bluff "like a boss". Sometime during all of this the clock is called and there seems to be several other distractions.... and the cameras are rolling. Seriously wtf. This is apt to frustrate and elicit emotion from a majority of players.

Folding the winning hand against someone who has successfully pissed you off with their banter and manipulation forcing you to make a difficult and possibly foolish fold can be heart wrenching. It is a fold that could also be somewhat embarrassing and at the same time have you thinking that you made such a bad fold that you might actually want you to perform self-flagellation. And just prior to the fold some mother****er calls the clock on you. If you're stoic through all of this then well done. Balls to the walls. But it's not easy to keep a lid on your emotions and frustrations in this kind of situation whether it's your own fault or due to the actions of others. Stacy complained slightly here and there which she is entitled to do and joined the table in some discussion about the clock. Big ****ing woop. Such a small deal. I don't think Stacey was overly out-of-line in any of the table dynamics.

The Jack Effel/Kassouf situation . I enjoyed the interaction between him and Kasoulf much like I get a kick out of it when baseball managers kick dirt at the umpire or other sport players get in the face of the referee to argue a call. Classic, timeless stuff that is part of the game and in this case it bled over in to poker. Awesome, exciting and pretty damn funny. Kassouf was behaving in a manner that was clearly obnoxious. Obviously effective but obnoxious nonetheless. The ref ( Jack) didn't like it and felt that a bit of decorum was in order. They have a discussion and Jack issues a warning (incorrectly some have argued) but issued nonetheless. A warning not having any real effect at this point.

Kassouf then sits down and does exactly what he is told not to do, in sign language. The more I think about it the funnier or more inane it gets. It's like the little 7 year old in school who is asked to be quiet and then proceeds to stick out his tongue, stick his thumbs in his ears and wave his fingers around. Kassouf was brilliantly childish and if you view it from this perspective he seemed to borrow from such greats a Benny Hill, Mr Bean, Jim Carrey and lets go there, Red Skelton. But yeah, now Jack had to give him a penalty. No alternative and Kassouf knew it.

The conflict of interest situation. I think that associations through employment, organization and personal relationships and other factors often can pose conflict of interest consideration, I also think that there is a degree to how serious that conflict can be. In my opinion the conflict of interest in this circumstance was minor and it likely did not affect the outcome. It seems worthy of discussion and it was an excellent NVG find but over all I think it was minor.

Going forward I see two items that may come from this. First, I think the WSOP should be more careful with conflict of interest situations and if a floor person appears to have a conflict or is in conflict they should remove themselves from the situation and have an independent person on hand to make the decisions. I would think that they have a policy for this but maybe it needs to be more clearly defined and better communicated to floor staff including Jack Effel so they are not placed in to situations where a possible conflict might exist.

I also see the WSOP taking a look at table talk and possibly forming some additional rules that give the floor at bit more leeway when it comes to table talk, discussions etc. to curb behavior that they consider inappropriate. It's a rocky road but it may be something that needs addressed if the WSOP floor wants to be making decisions similar to the one Jack Effel made.

I do have to say I haven't been overly impressed by Stacey's posting in this thread and it doesn't serve her well to be trading argumentative barbs. Answering questions or addressing what she thinks are unfair overtures and accusations in a more civil or professional manner would serve her better. But maybe she just wants a good fight. Dunno.

It would be great to see Nine High William join the thread.

Last edited by R*R; 10-03-2016 at 03:47 AM.
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Old 10-03-2016, 03:13 AM   #254
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Re: "9 high like a boss"

Quote:
Originally Posted by A MTT PRO View Post
It doesn't matter if Stacy's relationship with Jack affected his ruling, the fact that they have a working relationship IS the conflict of interest. I've taken at least three college level business ethics courses, and a conflict of interest is a conflict of interest regardless of whether or not it affected his decision. In other words Jack Effel should have removed himself from the situation and had someone else make a judgement. I don't think it changed his judgement, but by definition a conflict of interest was 100% present.
Exactly. I've said as much a few times and posed what I thought was a simple question to Stacy about it, but for whatever reason it seems she doesn't want to discuss it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R*R View Post
Going forward I see two items that may come from this. First, I think the WSOP should be more careful with conflict of interest situations and if a floor person appears to have a conflict or is in conflict they should remove themselves from the situation and have an independent person on hand to make the decisions. I would think that they have a policy for this but maybe it needs to be more clearly defined and better communicated to floor staff including Jack Effel so they are not placed in to situations where a possible conflict might exist.
Indeed.
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Old 10-03-2016, 05:33 AM   #255
Geezer Soze
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Re: "9 high like a boss"

Quote:
Originally Posted by StacyAcey View Post
First of all thank you! For posting an entrepreneurial article and publicizing something I'm proud of. Lol
People in the business know I work so hard, and was noticed by some
amazing media, they wanted to tell my life story and where I am in now in my life .
Here's the facts since I'm the one that knows them :...

I don't care if you believe the facts.
I just feel sorry for you that have no life and have spent your Sunday researching my entrepreneurial article. lol.

I finished 169th out of 6770 players. This hand doesn't overshadow it for me.
Have you ever gone that deep? ...

I made a mistake folding queens.
Get over it, I am .
Thanks !!

Ps ..one of the November 9 Hallart is a tournament director! Not for Wsop but Same field as well. Who cares!
Go on with your life bro.
You are welcome. I did the research you suggested, found the article looking for school info, and, to be fair, posted some of the "amazing" results, that's all.

It was a pretty in-depth, complimentary article about your business acumen, but it supports the point about why a perceived conflict would arise under the circumstances detailed in the television clips, in light of your status, the described agreement with the WSOP, and Jack's dual public role on your WSOP Team.

FWIW, no, I have never even played any WSOP tournament, let alone the ME. However, I understand the difference between playing poker and the business of poker. Sometimes discretion and judgment dictate hard choices between the two. They present separate sets of issues, but if you are active concurrently in both, otherwise avoidable problems may arise.

Whether you "made a mistake folding QQ" is irrelevant to everything I've posted in this thread, I was talking about the business of poker.

Your poker business story is impressive, probably way more impressive than "poker business" tales from the 168 runners who finished better than you in that poker tournament.

Get over this thread, learn from your mistakes in posting, stop bleeding ridiculous dis-information, and get back to your business.

(I watched about two minutes of the ESPN broadcast tonight, heard Chad blather on, calling Kassouf "royalty", and promptly switched channels.)

Last edited by Geezer Soze; 10-03-2016 at 05:44 AM.
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Old 10-03-2016, 06:28 AM   #256
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Re: "9 high like a boss"

Stacy would it be possible for you to clarify what exactly went on with regards to the gentleman who told you Kassouf's hole cards in the straight flush hand please?
It obviously raises huge concerns about the integrity of the tournament if information about filmed hole cards is less than 100% secure.
What reason would you have to believe that this information was correct and thus let it influence your subsequent decision given that no one should legitimately have this information?
Did you not feel it your duty to report this potential security breach at the time?

Last edited by epcfast; 10-03-2016 at 06:33 AM.
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Old 10-03-2016, 10:53 AM   #257
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Re: "9 high like a boss"

LOL iirc Stacy in the first episode of the coverage folded 99 overpair and said that it was her biggest fold ever....but still HAVE YOU EVER GONE THAT DEEP?!?!?
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Old 10-03-2016, 11:36 AM   #258
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Re: "9 high like a boss"

I used to play a lot with Will in the vic cash games back when I played every day.

I liked having him in the game. Sure he likes to be the centre of attention and takes up some time but compared to most of the boring fuqs grinding live cash he was fairly entertaining.

As for his talk, anyone who has played a reasonable amount of live poker won't find it remotely distracting. He only has 1 level and it works on lots of people, but if you call yourself a pro and can't tell what he wants you to do that's pretty embarrassing. Re-watch him talking during the straight flush and bluff hands. It's really very obvious, and I'm speaking from experience. Tony Gregg clearly knows what's up.
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Old 10-03-2016, 12:12 PM   #259
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Re: "9 high like a boss"

Alex keating is absolutely unbearable . I would rather sit with a table full of kassoufs than one keating . Going back to the hand with kassouf and matuson, the woman with the horrendous bucket hat makes my teeth itch.
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Old 10-03-2016, 12:48 PM   #260
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Re: "9 high like a boss"

Quote:
Originally Posted by cantor1987 View Post
Alex keating is absolutely unbearable . I would rather sit with a table full of kassoufs than one keating . Going back to the hand with kassouf and matuson, the woman with the horrendous bucket hat makes my teeth itch.
Keating's persona is "designed" to look genuine, but I read it as fake.

Kassouf's persona comes across as fake, but I would bet that it is very close to who he is off the table.
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Old 10-03-2016, 03:24 PM   #261
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Re: "9 high like a boss"

Quote:
Originally Posted by epcfast View Post
Stacy would it be possible for you to clarify what exactly went on with regards to the gentleman who told you Kassouf's hole cards in the straight flush hand please?
It obviously raises huge concerns about the integrity of the tournament if information about filmed hole cards is less than 100% secure.
What reason would you have to believe that this information was correct and thus let it influence your subsequent decision given that no one should legitimately have this information?
Did you not feel it your duty to report this potential security breach at the time?
Also, does anyone consider having this information to be unethical? You know something that you should not and had no way of knowing without outside help, does it matter if the information was unsolicited?

As above, should you have told anyone about this? Should you have told Will that you knew what his hand was and how you knew?

I am not sure but it feels wrong, it definitely was not over person per hand for you at that point.


Oh and Keating is way more annoying than Will.
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Old 10-03-2016, 04:30 PM   #262
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Re: "9 high like a boss"

He is giving you information you can use to make a winning decision, but most of you want to argue---using the finer points of how to be a Type A whackadoo.

Let him ramble. It can be used in your favor too, but that takes some discipline. Have it.
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Old 10-03-2016, 05:42 PM   #263
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Re: "9 high like a boss"

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Originally Posted by A MTT PRO View Post
It doesn't matter if Stacy's relationship with Jack affected his ruling, the fact that they have a working relationship IS the conflict of interest. I've taken at least three college level business ethics courses, and a conflict of interest is a conflict of interest regardless of whether or not it affected his decision. In other words Jack Effel should have removed himself from the situation and had someone else make a judgement. I don't think it changed his judgement, but by definition a conflict of interest was 100% present.

Other opinions of mine: Stacy had a bad attitude and demeanor in this thread in response to accusations and at the table in response to the clock being called. Basically calling us idiots for assuming her company was owned by Caesars when they are in fact owned by Caesars according to the WHOIS and who the site is registered to, etc.
Kassouf is annoying, but the more he talked the more I would be able to read him so I would love to be at his table. It was obvious to me when he wanted a call or a fold. If I were him in that situation where the TD gave me clear instructions I would have dropped it and STFU so I believe he deserved the penalty.
This...100% this. Stacy, this is what everyone is talking about here. Doesn't matter if Jack favoured you or not at that time, it is a definite conflict of interest as you and Jack and publicly linked.
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Old 10-03-2016, 05:59 PM   #264
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Re: "9 high like a boss"

There was probably not any phrase taken individually said by Kassouf that was justifying a penalty by itself, but the whole act (non stop jabbing everytime his opponent is thinking) clearly deserves a penalty.
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Old 10-03-2016, 06:21 PM   #265
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Re: "9 high like a boss"

Quote:
Originally Posted by StacyAcey View Post
I'm literally dying of laughter
WE WERE ALL IN PREFLOP ... lol
Seems as though you dug yourself nicely into " I have no clue what I'm talking about" so no one should pay any attention to you, including me
That guy more then likely thought he was posting in bbv forum when saying easy fold on flop, but an obvious troll is obvious . You where in a tough situation, I don't think you did anything to represent yourself in a poor way. Congrats on your high finish bummer about that aa hand and one before it. Kassof is someone who thinks he is witty, charming and engaging when in reality he is a fool and a tool.
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Old 10-03-2016, 07:45 PM   #266
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Re: "9 high like a boss"

didn't read thread but just making sure everyone got to see the second dropping of the 9 high quote:

23:30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQXv...V3a_rd-necrrDN
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Old 10-03-2016, 07:53 PM   #267
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Re: "9 high like a boss"

I thought "roflers gonna rofl" was almost as good.
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Old 10-03-2016, 10:50 PM   #268
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Re: "9 high like a boss"

Amazing how the annoying guy is more likeable than the lady.
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Old 10-03-2016, 11:17 PM   #269
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Re: "9 high like a boss"

I enjoyed Kassouf's banter the first episode...but now that we're on day 6, it's completely unbearable. He would tilt the **** out of me....at least come up with different things to say!
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Old 10-04-2016, 03:18 AM   #270
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Re: "9 high like a boss"

Quote:
Originally Posted by cantor1987 View Post
Alex keating is absolutely unbearable . I would rather sit with a table full of kassoufs than one keating . Going back to the hand with kassouf and matuson, the woman with the horrendous bucket hat makes my teeth itch.
I'm generally not a fan of people who use 'joking insults' when they first meet someone (by this I don't mean teasing but a genuine insult passed off as a joke) and Keating has done it several times. I hate to compliment Dnegs but he plays it perfectly with the joking with randoms at the table.
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Old 10-04-2016, 03:27 AM   #271
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Re: "9 high like a boss"

2+2 forum is showing itself a lot more "mememe" than Stacy.
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Old 10-04-2016, 04:57 AM   #272
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Re: "9 high like a boss"

So many silly issues being combined into one giant mess of a thread. What is the issue? Her fold? His banter? The conflict of interest? The ability of the tournament director to do his job?

You cannot avoid conflicts like this in a huge open tournament of this kind. Basically the entire poker world - at least those that can come up with 10k and a trip to Vegas - participates in the main event. Ergo, there will be many different conflicts of interest throughout the tournament, probably one at each table in some capacity. This particular one seems incredibly trivial. Unless you can show a pattern of behavior that clearly demonstrates preferential treatment, there is nothing to discuss.

Seriously, what do you want? To keep anyone who has a relationship with the WSOP, Ceasars, or tournament director out of the tournament? That's just silly. I would imagine a greater conflict of interest is the tournament trying to keep big names in the event longer, driving greater interest, higher ratings, etc. Should Helmuth and Negraneau be excluded from the tournament based on that? What if you are a regular customer of the casino, a known whale, should you be barred from the main event? The WSOP must work with countless suppliers to put on a tournament of that size, should any supplier to the WSOP, or Ceasars, be excluded from participating? The management of the catering company? The guy who prints the badges? What about ex dealers who once worked for Ceasars? Tournament director neighbors? Family members?

Looking at the specific ruling, it seems completely fair. He was warned, he didn't listen, he received a penalty. If anything I thought it was unfair to allow the clock to be called so quickly. And because of the constant talking, I would think more time should have been granted to compensate.

This seems like a huge tempest in a teapot. There is nothing to see here. Move on, please.

Last edited by PraguePoker; 10-04-2016 at 05:15 AM.
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Old 10-04-2016, 08:14 AM   #273
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Re: "9 high like a boss"

Only there is plenty to see here.

This potential conflict of interest probably had little bearing on the (deserved) penalty but Stacey claims she was given information about Kassouf's hole cards that could only have been possible if security was seriously compromised.
Quote:
1) he had similar table talk when he had the straight flush.
After the straight flush hand, someone whispered to me that he showed the cameras the straight flush so that popped into my head while trying to read him.
How was this information obtained and why was it relayed to her?
In light of this then the relationship between the player,the WSOP and the tournament director certainly warrants further scrutiny.
As I said earlier it's entirely possible that Stacey simply made this up to make her fold look better but if we discount this then it looks very very bad indeed.
If the hole card information is not secure then what's to stop someone at the feature table receiving real time hole card information on their phone,tablet,friend on the rail signalling etc?
Real life super user account.
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Old 10-04-2016, 09:04 AM   #274
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Re: "9 high like a boss"

Anybody that says something then says "Like a Boss" is a super douche... Hate this Kassouf guy....
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Old 10-04-2016, 09:08 AM   #275
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Re: "9 high like a boss"

Has Kassouf got a hair transplant yet?
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