...

^^^^^^edit: ya dude he's just one of many players in that forum saying the same thing

Just forget the fact that he name an account that was already accused on this forum for a moment. Remember there has been serious discussion and analysis of players that are suspected of bots and it's been going on for a while now. Joey is just one player out of many, it seems, saying the same thing when it comes to bots. He's just trying to bring some light to it while the poker room itself just ignores it for months now, if not years as that's how long I've been seeing posts about it in the WPN sub forum. To just put this on just Joe is silly, he's just doing his part with the info he has just like everyone else having this discussion.

This discussion needs to happen 1 way or another and Joey did a good job imo.

Pretty sure I encountered bots in ACR Plo. This was probably about a year or so ago. Since then I haven't seen them in the games I play. Perhaps they moved up stakes. I remember there were 2 players that would soft play each other while literally running over rest of table. At time I assumed it was a bot created by ACR because it was literally sucking everyones money up. Again, that was awhile ago since then the games have seemed more balanced. I obviously don't play as high stakes as Joey.

This is the only response in 3 separate bot threads in the WPN subforum and it's basically him trolling Carl after lots of complaints about bots.


1 post.....

I believe ACR is not involved one bit in this as far as implicitly directly involved to "recover funds" Papi, go look at "the streak" mtts that go everyday. Every single day for 2 weeks now they overlayed BIG. just today the 200k pool got only 104k. They could have shut it down but didnt. They let this 1 game in particular go off many times. that goes without saying their milly had overlid over 100k a few times recently. If they were malicious theyd just cancel these. So that brings my opinion that their security is incompetent. I think that because i myself made a nice report to them about the most obvious sng collusion ever, and they didnt agree with me. I wont go on and on but i proved in a 4 handed game 2 guys minraise/folded to each other... over and over(example: minraise to 800/fold to a 1k totalstack shove) on more than one occasion.
Their security is just the nut worst. Nothing will be done about all this. If they know it goes on and choose to ignore it then we have a problem but i dont think that is the case.

I stopped playing PLO because it was always my belief the regs shared holecards... and severely softplay each other. Its amazing how certain guys can play multiple tables and never get in pots together. Anyway Papi if you wanna continue your search you will have a field day watching LOLYOUFOLD and what i call"Team london" and "team UK play nlhe cash 5/10 and up. I could write a book on that guy... known him for many yrs and he even tried to sell me his vpn services before. Theres so much shady stuff at nlhe.

Its a shame theres zero way to prove anything too especially when sites wot work with you seriously about the matter

I do agree that the other thread does contain some damning evidence of bots at lower stakes. I think most players realize that botting is happening at every site. However your reasoning that there are a lot of people discussing it is completely flawed. Take a look at the "Poker is Rigged" Thread and you can find a lot of people saying the same BS. My issue is, if your going to make a YT video that is going to get a **** ton of traction, and your going to out some screen names, and make accusations like "SuperUser" you should provide evidence..

Joey thanks for taking the time to do this video. Nice to have a pro who's known in the poker media step forward to bring these problems light while spending your own time for no financial gain. Appreciate you bro!

Absurd that WPN just shrugs this stuff off. Its obv to anyone who's played cash on their site that a good % of the Eastern Euro accounts are botting. Rather then give away tons of money in overlay in mtts that cant reach the guarantee they should upgrade software and change the regions they offer service. Yeah some regular players in these countries would get screwed but in the long run the site would make more from net deposits anyways.

Dude people have been complaining about bots since I started around 2 years ago in the WPN sub forum. It's 1 of those common complaints and the threads about the bots are only a month old. Plenty of people bitched about bots. STop arguing over nothing.

Party poker is just as bad in terms of bots. You just need to play cash games on these sites for a few days to realize they are play very different to other sites. Joey is spot on when he calls it 'unnatural'. It just feels off.

Many players beating the games on WPN have been posting about bots etc for literally years.

i dont play on wpn anymore but i always thought i had a few players that had to be bots
at lower stakes. i wasnt really upset about bots but i did hate the way wpn handled it when you reported players names to them. super cavalier about it and dismissing.

That fact does not escape me, I was getting bots kicked off Full Tilt back in '09 the problem is not new or unique to WPN!

Accusations of collusion, superusers were made, and a handfull of SN's were thrown out. and zero evidence.
That is not the same as Bots - we have been playing with Bots on every site since 2008 at a minimum, it's not breaking news to anyone but the ignorant and naive.

I posted the evidence of bots on WPN in the other thread that was just made. 3 accounts that had basically the same stats, didn't play each other, never move up, never time down.

Here's a link as it's a bit post.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...9&postcount=54

This is a post I made in the other thread on here.

I've received 200+ messages after yesterday's ACR cheating video. Everyone from the accused account owners, ACR owner & security, people w/ more information on accounts involved, high stakes regulars, bot creator/network operator & more

Will put out an update video tomorrow on the situation.

I understand that some are looking for 1000% smoking gun evidence on some of these things. I do feel like the evidence for botting has been provided on 2p2. I've personally witnessed two events take place. Bots have been banned in the past on the site at NL and PLO. If you have observed the games at plo10-plo200/400 over the past months, you would say "lol what the **** is going on here?" If you have played with some of these accounts, you would say the same thing. Bots have been proven to be high-level winners at these stakes on Pokerstars 3-5 years ago! While this issue isn't unique to ACR, it is clearly happening on ACR and allowed to continue to happen.

The possible super using accounts I can understand wanting concrete evidence on. I don't think anyone outside the poker site can provide this. I believe that this is exactly what I have watched take place for HOURS over multiple sessions. I've played against and sat out for fear of it taking place. This is also the most blatant case of this I have encountered. Why/how/what would this be happening for?? I have no ****ing idea. This is something I've never seriously worried about in my entire poker career. I've always dismissed these claims as "lol, calm down fish." After becoming more aware of this, I've started to heavily pay attention to tendencies from other accounts on the site that I've felt a very weird suspicion for and highly believe there is something incredibly ****ed up taking place. I will never be able to prove this by myself. If people have an issue with me making this public, that is fine. This is what I believe, and as someone who has recommended this site HUNDREDS of times, I want to make it clear why I can not do this anymore.

The information on the alleged collusion I received made me so ****ing angry. This type of activity taking place in the HSPLO games is something that just makes me sad. I made a video talking about fixing the high stakes world, have done way more research into the state of the high stakes world, had many conversations with people about the current state & how to fix it, and then I get a message about this. It's like, I don't think this can be fixed with the current crop of poker sites. I then started observing the accounts and play pattern and tendencies while also witnessing people I know play in the same games. This was the last moment that made me realize I needed to put this out sooner than later. If this is happening so blatant, the idea that it isn't happening smarter I believe to be impossible. I believe this particular case is something that ACR can prove on their end, but I have limited faith in them.

When you take into account all of these suspicions, this is why I made the video with the information that I have. If people don't believe what I'm saying, want concrete proof, or think I shouldn't have done it that is fine. I'm absolutely okay and can understand where they are coming from. I want those things myself. I want to be wrong about all of this.

After further conversations with my contacts in the bot world, I fear I underestimated the extent of botting and assisted software currently in use. After further conversations with people regarded the collusion at cash games and MTT, I feel more confident in this than previous. The 44bars account is the one that I think something ****ed up is taking place for sure. The possible superusing account, I will go to my death thinking something 100% is taking place here.

This is where I stand right now on things. I wish I didn't care about this; there really is no incentive for me to post about it. I'm now getting messages from all sorts of people about theories/cheating/etc. I want people to play more poker, not less. I want them to be as interested in poker as they can be. I want more people playing PLO, not less. Releasing this type of video is going to do the very opposite of those.

I will talk more about this tomorrow.

It's a lot harder for winning players to win money today. The same holds true for poker sites - it's hard to attract new blood/more deposits.

As things get harder, poker players move to coaching/scamming/other jobs. As things get harder, poker sites also find new ways to keep the ship upright. Changing game structures, segregated player pools, etc - but probably some other schemes as well. Break-even prop bots that play for the sites so that there is action available for real players is one way to keep the rake flow.

But suppose they advertise all these tourney overlays but some accounts are going to win on behalf of the site. 100K guarantee, 80K entries... but 30k is skimmed off by fake accounts that play for the site...

Bottom line is that in deteriorating environment, sites can either close or scheme. Developing software to try new gaming alterations is very expensive. A few superuser accounts skimming the guarantees is much easier. Bot networks with favored status is much easier.

I will hypothesize this: bot rings are not a big problem for the simple reason that poker sites don't want winning players/bots to drain their poker site economy. They can easily tell who is winning each month. Bots can't really be that big of an issue. Sites would simply ban and refuse to cash them out unless, that is, the bots are working for the site.

I agree with a lot of your post but don't agree with the bolded at all. acr has massive rake races that encourage and incentivize mostly winning/breakeven/slight losing players before rb to play a bunch of tables at once for hours on end. so ethics aside they'd be fine with bot type players from that standpoint. i would have they are ethical enough to not want bots bc they're cheating.

I'm doing my Liveatthebike show in about an hour with the end boss of legal NJ online poker NLH TomBrady. You can find it live at 6pm PST on https://www.youtube.com/liveatthebikecom

or on liveatthebike.com after.

I've heard about this guy being an end boss for years and he recently started playing live poker.

Not sure if suggested before, but how about Srslysrs on the podcast?

I believe 100% people softplay and share cards a TON in the 6max PLO games. It made me not even play anymore.

In general in plo if you are holding the K high flush( no paired board no str8 flush possible) and bet and get raised, you just call that bet, or make a hero fold. However i have seen the same person who played a ton back when i saw this actually 3bet the k high flush on river and get shoved on!! and make the call and be good. The 3 times i seen this yes it was against a whale(different player each time) but i cant help think that the "other reg" at the table (who NEVER EVER got involved in a pot with k high flush guy) didnt give the information that"hey you can go nuts with the K high flush i folded the A of that suit"

I honestly had to take a deep breath (as I'm drunk as hell) and realize Joey we Need Srslysrs on pod asap I can't be-leave all these Years Thomas has never been on the pod . . . Much Love Srslysrs and Joey and Vodka . . .

How in the hell do you acheive an 80% ITM rate? And why do all these players have tons of freerolls with low cashes?? To balance out the ITM ratio??

To Test the bot / system?

ding ding ding

Or, they were already freeroll bots before a botter discovered this flaw in the system to exploit, and then bought up all these old freeroll bot accounts and is now MA'ing into every mtt that looks good for the exploit.

(I think a potential target mtt would have to be close to the money bubble, and have a number of entrants that is currently close to a multiple of 9)

Just watched the recent video. It's very clear what's going on now... and there's just so many angles that could be going on within what is going on.

Very sad.

I know the spotlight is on WPN, but this has got to be going on on Bovada as well, right? There's no usernames on there, though, so there's no data we can analyze or anyone we could ever point a finger at.

I've posted this vid in some other cheating/colluding threads. I'll post it here as well to give you an idea of what is going on in terms of confirmed multi-accounting/chip dumping:



Basically, this guy had many different accounts registered under different people and would chip dump to himself by using Zone. He was also using the same IP on all of the accounts! (The loophole is that players on the same IP can't sit with each other on any other tables other than Zone.)

Just sharing this to give you an idea of what is going on elsewhere.

Zone is my main game, so seeing this video pissed me the f*ck off.

Joey "Lookin' up cash rates for freerolls" Ingram.

But for real good investigative work in the vid.