I watched the video and can confirm I did so whilst not on drugs.

The whole video was directed towards Dnegs and Stars, that's why I'm talking about them.

I understand perfectly what you are saying. It's admirable in a sense but also self destructive with the way the environment is.

If you're saying I'm on drugs while I made it, I'm always like that

The title is directed to DN because him mocking the current system was what ultimately inspired me to talk about it. It's directed at every single poker site.

I don't think things can get more self-destructive than they have been for the past few years. I can tell the people who haven't explored other places to play high stakes poker on the internet because if you saw how it was in some places, you would understand how different things could be. I think that the regs who might be upset they can't script anymore would end up being happy with it.

Yeah I mean in mid stakes it is true the games don't fill instantly and often the reg(s) sit you out unless you're an obvious fish. Actually looked into this with a friend since both of us were curious of the scripters.

I think stuff like sne did help with traffic at mid stakes a lot but hard to see stars changing the rb formula they have now.

I mean I know they turned ship with the EPT but rebranding is different to a rewards strategy.

Stuff like a high stakes showcase, have a qualifier play and have a stars pro on there too.

Like I think an issue too with high stakes is that there's so little incentive for the regs to even battle due to **** rb which leads to a far higher ratio of predatory games.

Like it's without questions Recs are put off by getting snap sat. A lot of fish especially with money to play HS actually aren't ******s, I'm sure a lot go in expecting to lose but the predatory snap sit out on the smoke break and snap leaving just gives off a sour taste, people play for fun and this doesn't enrich the experience, merely worsens it.

On a slight side note would be nice to see some MSNL prop bets similar to what yarrnnnyy did, maybe that's because I'm nostalgics and always go back to joeys vids during the yarnnyyy prop bet

Anyone have update on yarny btw?

Like again I'm just spit balling since I don't have any experience at high stakes but I know in live poker catering to the whales is super valuable and a nicer environment and attitude towards HS regs should definitely be something that is worked on, otherwise they just click the casino tab (maybe stars wants this tho...)


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I also do realize that the likelihood of anything related to this significantly making a difference on the bigger sites is drawing pretty slim. If they adopt a few of the ideas related to putting on events similar to Poker After Dark does, scheduled PS pro games, a Twitch stream of some type of anything, cash game challenges, etc, etc. then I will be pretty happy. There are so many ways to get creative with ideas like this that are unrelated to bumhunters, seat scripters, etc.

I do know that there are multiple cryptocurrency poker sites in development, as well as Phil G site and I'm much more hopeful that these ideas & more will be implemented in some type of way on those platforms.

The main reason I do focus on Pokerstars is that the some of the ridiculously OOL **** I've seen happening on almost every other non-Pokerstars site is pretty wild at higher stakes. I do think there are things that can be done to attempt to counter this, but there will always be OOL things being done. Higher level people trying to stop this will help a bunch, but when you can't detect an obvious Italian bot ring at the micro stakes, you're probably going to struggle with competent people at the higher stakes.

It would probably be GTO for me to not care 90% as much as I do about it & instead of wanting to continue playing online poker, I should spend all that energy focusing on something else.

In a way, I'm coming from a super selfish standpoint. I think the biggest reason I feel this way is that I do want to dedicate more of my energy to playing high stakes PLO. I love the game, and I love competing. I want to be able to do this for years to come, and I want the high stakes cash game world to mean something special in the poker world. I've seen the way games can be in other conditions, and I don't think it's that insane to have that on a much bigger scale. The current conditions of the high stakes world are a complete mess with no end in sight on the current crop of sites. The system worked well for a long time but once it stopped, no one or nothing was attempted to better it. I want to continue creating poker content for the foreseeable future and not have it be 90% tournament discussion. I think that I feel this way right now because I see the attention of the poker world shifting away faster and faster and becoming interested in much more innovative areas of the world. Who can really blame them?

Poker is what I love the most, and I want it to remain something that people care about so I'll keep at it even if I'm one of the only people doing it. I can understand why a few current players feel the way they do about what I said. I used to feel the exact same way about anything I perceived to negatively impact my current status quo of grinding online poker. I didn't give a **** what the other side was often times, and nothing anyone said was going to sway me. I probably feel this way right now to some extent. While I've read some of the reasons why people say that nothing can be fixed and this is the way it is, I'm going to choose to not believe that is the only answer and figure out if there could possibly be another. Maybe there isn't, and that's fine. I'll continue trying.

This type of feeling is a similar one to when I initially started my podcast. There was literally 0 pot limit Omaha content being created at any sort of level. I kept wishing there was something created that I could enjoy and I couldnt figure out why it wasn't. I loved the short run that pokerstatic had. I finally said **** it, if no one else is going to do this then I will do it. The only people really creating poker content, outside of training videos, were players who either didn't play anymore or never played in their entire lives at a high level (there wasn't really content of almost any kind 4 years ago.) I kept wondering why there wasn't better content for people who are actually winning at poker. Obviously that player pool and the PLO player pool are much smaller compared to the losing player pool and NLH player pools so the majority of the focus was on that and I understand why. I think it's similar in this instance. Most of the focus is on the tournament world & creating crack cocaine game types for new players and I understand why that is. I've been able to create something that I've always wondered why didn't exist with my podcast and share the stories of some great players that most likely never would have been shared. I didn't know this years ago but I do now know the reason why content of both types was neglected so hard and that is because no one really gives a **** about doing it. I've encountered a large % of poker players, poker media, poker business people, and on who literally give no **** about anything poker related. They hate poker and hate the poker world. They see it as the scum of the world and once again, I can completely understand why. (There is also the debate over making money from all of this and I could type another 100 paragraphs about that subject.) These are the people who have a say in changes being made on all levels (including the high stakes online cash game world.) Most people don't understand the game of poker and the poker world on a high level as well, the ones that do, realize that their ability is probably best served in doing 1000 other things instead of creating content or attempting to improve the poker ecosystem in some way. Doug was able to find a way to do both at the same time, as well as build his business through it, and crushed it. I guess I feel similar right now, I'm saying **** it, let's see what I can do here. If it all goes downhill and nothing works at all, then I can go do 1000 other things out there in the world.

One of my main goals behind this all was to generate discussion, I know that I am good at this when I want to be Here we are right now having a spirited discussion

on a side note, as a nlhu player, I have to say that I now believe that zoom only is the only sustainable way to offer hu for a poker site. I hate stars as much as every other reg and I think that HU is waaaaaay overraked at pretty mucn all stakes, but this one move they got right. No idea about 6max, though, with 1 rec "feeding" 5 regs at the table rather than 1 it is probably very different.

I also want to say that I do feel responsible in some ways (which does seem a bit strange when I really think about it) for the current state of interest in the online cash game poker world and interest in some of the best players in the world. I know that I had the potential to make a much much much much bigger impact in this area.

I know that I could have been much more efficient with my approach over the past 4 years. To be honest, it was always extremely easy to do well that I never felt compelled to put in effort to the level I know I am capable of. I was dedicating 95% of my energy to playing online poker and the rest to creating content. I could have done a much better job on continuing series that I started that people enjoyed that focused on the high stakes world. I could have done a MUCH better job in the past years of adding professionalism on the presentation side of things with my content (lighting, video, uploading, scheduling.) I also could have done a MUCH better job of maintaining relationships & building new ones with the top players still competing at the highest stakes.

I think that Doug showed us all what is possible and the differences in our approach to content is about the same as our approaches to poker. Doug took the same approach to content & building an audience as he took to getting to the highest stakes of poker. I've always been able to have great success at poker but I always mix in completely undisciplined moments that end up hurting me so so much. My mind forgets what I am "supposed" to be doing and I end up in my own world for some period of time before I finally snap out of it and ask myself what the **** I was doing. I imagine that some of you can see that with my approach to content. I'm super engaged for long stretches of times and then I'll end up zoning out for periods of time or forgetting to focus on improvement in what I am spending my time on. Then some time goes by and I'm in a similar place I was months earlier. I often wonder how the **** I have success at anything I do with how I get sometimes.

It took me years but I've been able to get to a point where I can succeed at what I'm doing while in this auto-pilot mode of life and with content being so easy to do, it's why I was able to do a couple live podcasts a week regularly. The amount of effort it took was, I spend 1 minute sending someone a message to come on, they agree, I tweet/post about it, then we do it, then that's it. I didn't update any YouTube descriptions, add tags, change the titles, or really post about most podcasts after I did them. I never uploaded the best moments, never added them to iTunes, never really did so many things I could have. I won an award (we can debate on how much the award means but It def meant a lot to me) with this approach lol. Now I think about how things might be had I really ****ing got after it but it doesn't bother me and ultimately I feel happy about what I've been able to do.

That is some added context to where I'm at right now with the topic of the high stakes world and a bit of where I'm coming from with my approach to the things that I do.

Very well said Joey much love . . .

I don't play online anymore, so I don't know if anyone does this.

In live poker, there are must-move feeder games in some poker rooms. I've seen players tough it out in a live short-handed, nitty PLO game so they can make it to a main table filled with action players. Can an online poker site implement things so that if a fish sits down and the table instantly fills up and a waiting list builds, they make the players on the list play in a feeder game to maintain their spot on the list? You can't force players to play a -EV game, but you can give them the incentive to play what might be a -EV game if they need to do it to gain access to a +EV game.

lol I need to give you an hour lesson in Photoshop

It's the least I could do for all the images you've created of me.

lol god no if it takes more that 60 sec to make I'm out lol but thanks maybe advice on bb HU plo deep, or ebony kenney's # . . .

I think in your earlier post you are being way too self-critical about the poker content you create.

A main reason why it's so good to watch and exceptionally interesting is that it is very natural, sometimes completely spontaneous, and not over produced, or over structured. Because of this it flows and produces some very memorable podcasts and moments.

Maybe the above way of making content means it is not fully optimising revenue for you, but not everything is about money, you have to also enjoy what you are doing in life and make *that* the first priority IMO.

You sound like the girls I date Sage They say that first sentence to me in different forms all the time. Overthinking every single thing I do is what I do on a daily basis.

This is all independent of anything money related, making money from what I do is incredibly easy with the slightest of effort. I heard people talk about how hard it is to monetize things like this but I can't imagine those people were trying very hard. Making money playing online PLO in 2018 is 100x more challenging and 1000x more time-consuming. I actually want to really emphasize this for people out there wondering, it is incredibly easy to make some level of money if you have an audience. It reallly helps to actually be good at different skills people want to learn but I don't think it's necessary.


The naturalness and structure of what I do is easy to maintain. I used that excuse for a long time actually when thinking about it alone.

Women tend to give better advice about most things than men do. I'm not a woman but I do have the word sage in my name.

Expanding on the money related post because this is one of the questions I get asked by almost every single person.

If I was to do a money stack of --

1 Pre-Roll 1 Mid-Roll podcast advertisement at a few hundred $$$ each for 2 podcasts/week
5 Hours of coaching (Poker or GTO Club related)
1 Main product I affiliate for
1 or 2 Instagram Ads in the form of posts or in the story/month
LiveAtTheBike weekly show
YouTube revenue
(These can be poker or non-poker related products/companies as I'm approached by all sorts of different people/items often)

I would be up near or over $10k pretty quickly.

Add in creating & pushing merchandise, some type of paetron (bonus content for hardcores), marketing current book or writing more content, creating another type of product, more involved paid content aka an entire video sponsored by something/someone, etc etc.

Then add emphasize on building all social medias + YouTube content and the amount earned from a few of those grows along with it. How much you can charge for ads on podcast + Instagram, YouTube rev, amount of merch/content that sells, amount of products sold thru affiliate, etc.

They all work together with somewhat ease. I feel like a bit of a donk for never doing this now lol but I always feel like the further down this route I go, the farther away from playing poker I will go. But here is a base blueprint for anyone out there wondering about this.

My view is as long as you keep the integrity and quality of the podcasts or any other video content you produce, the viewer won't give a $hit whether the whole pod is sponsored by 888 or if every 10 minutes you plug a staking site or a poker clothing label.

Same applies on any other channels, Instagram etc. If your output is good people realise and accept that you have to make a living/cover costs etc.

So go for it IMO. Maximise all your revenue, but just don't change as a person or the style & quality of content.

i think quick fix are:

- first and most important imo is to let players change their screen names once a month (people will not have enough stats/data to exploit others)

- obv dont allow players from same ip to sit on same table

- reward/ban players based on their behavior
after one/two player(6max/9max) leave, if players still on table dont play min 7-10(6max/9max) orbits ban them to play same limits/same games for 24+ hours // reward players that will not leave the table and continue to play

for ex. if one/two player(6max/9max) leave the table after 1/2 players (6max/9max) that bust left the table without playing 10/7(6max/9max) more orbits
=> first 2/3 players(6max/9max) that leave without playing 10/7(6max/9max) more orbits ban them for 48hours same limits/same type of games,
=> next one/two player(6max/9max) that leave without playing 10/7(6max/9max) more orbits = ban for 24 hours same limits/same type of games
=> reward last 2/4 guys(6max/9max) that are at the table with X% rakeback for next 10/7(6max/9max) orbits they will play in same limits/same type of games

*** if all players after one player leave stay and play min 10/7(6max/9max) orbits= reward them in a way next 10-15(6max/9max) orbits they play together on that table are rake free (obv if new player/s joins ematy sit and plays only those rake free orbits and then leave the table without loosing his stack(with profits) and all most of other players still playing= ban this "smart guy" 48hours/7days/30days playing same limits/same type of games)

No idea how realistic any of this is but love you for making that vid Joey

+1

Always fun going back and listening to the old pods, always pick up on something I missed when I rewatch one.

I stopped playing online on Black Friday, back when I was taking shots at 2KNL and 5KNL on PS. It seems like ages ago but even back then, few games were running outside the prime hours and at both limits, there was a lot of sitting out.

In the end, the goal of Pokerstars is to find optimal game conditions to rake as much as possible as a function of rake % and volume. To that end, Pokerstars wants a lot of breakeven players, many of whom are bumhunters. As far as Pokerstars bottom line is concerned, it is people like cumicon who take 7 million out of the ecosystem that should be banned. Just imagine how much advertising PS had to do to sign up enough players to feed just one cumicon.

As always, the winners in the game complain about bumhunters but reality is that big winners in the game are the ones who end up destroying the ecosystem. They take too much money out of the games too quickly. This was OK when the floodgates were open and new money was coming in, but it was not sustainable. Same thing happens when new B&M poker rooms open - games slow down as fun players can't take the losses. What happens next? Same as in B&M rooms - people keep moving down in stakes or quit.

What you are seeing right now is the last remaining money getting squeezed out of the ecosystem via seat scripting/etc. If there was more money in the ecosystem, very few people would need to take these extreme measures to win a little money in the games. This is a symptom, not the problem.

Thoughts:
- I was surprised that PS got rid of SN and SNE because it incentivized break even players to put in the volume and keep the ecosystem running.
- If people can't make much money at 50NL, there won't be many people feeding into 100NL, and so on. And that's what it comes down to these days - people are not making enough money at lower stakes to take shots at higher stakes.
- Pokerstars can't spot even obvious bot rings - this should give you an idea of how "secure" their site really is.
- Everyone is a bumhunter, it's just a question of how many people you think are better than you and worse than you. The problem is that people playing NL and PLO know all too well where they stand. New game formats and alterations to existing game formats throw some unknowns into the mix. (anties, 3 blinds, etc.) Pokerstars should force new game alterations to keep things fresh and minimize people's awareness of their actual status. At the very least, people need to play substantial volume to figure out where they stand.
- I like the B&M feeder table suggestion. A lot of people will play a long time at a bad feeder table at the hope of getting into the main game.

Trying to fix high stakes is missing the crux of the problem. The problem is low stakes and mid stakes. There is not enough "new" money and fun players to keep things and letting better regs step up in limits. How does any poker site solve this without easy access to USA market?

finally some sense ITT.

ultimatively teh problem is too few fish/new money vs. too many regs and former fish getting converted to regs/semiregs via education

theres bad news though: this problem cannot be solved no matter what

I had forgotten about this until earlier today but one of new Amaya main point was they wanted to eliminate people who withdrew money from the site and put that same money in their own pocket.

I do find it quite (ironic maybe) that poker is what it is because of players like Cumicon in the past. Pokerstars might have assassinated Phil Ivey and Patrik Antonious if they owned the company when they were up many many millions. Tom Dwan, Isildur, Ivey, PA, Ziiigmund, Phil Galfond, Doug all from the cash games.

One of my main points in the video was that you have to build the high stakes from the ground up, starting with lower stakes.

I do think there is much more money in the ecosystem of players who have given up attempting to play online because of varying different factors. My main purpose is that there are many many different ideas you could try to improve the games themselves, increase cash game exposure, etc etc. Maybe everything fails miserably but the alternative isn't that great either.

- Pokerstars can't spot even obvious bot rings - this should give you an idea of how "secure" their site really is.

I think ultimately this is the biggest challenge for every poker site.

- Everyone is a bumhunter, it's just a question of how many people you think are better than you and worse than you. The problem is that people playing NL and PLO know all too well where they stand. New game formats and alterations to existing game formats throw some unknowns into the mix. (anties, 3 blinds, etc.) Pokerstars should force new game alterations to keep things fresh and minimize people's awareness of their actual status. At the very least, people need to play substantial volume to figure out where they stand.

I don't think everyone is a bumhunter and I also think there is a difference between a bumhunter & someone that is going to insta-sitout 100% of the time. The coming up with new game alterations is where the idea of innovation comes in. But I understand why they wouldn't bother to care.


- I like the B&M feeder table suggestion. A lot of people will play a long time at a bad feeder table at the hope of getting into the main game.


I like this as well. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. It is a way to incentivize players to play in conditions they might not otherwise play.




lol keep it up and hold out as long as you can. Everytime you say it cannot be solved no matter what I actually get more fired up

There is a difference between bum hunting and knowing where you stand. I can choose to not play Cumicon HU but if I snap sit out VS anyone that isn't completely ******ed, one is an issue and one isn't.

The player who won 7 million doesn't even play low stakes so your argument here is flawed.

Second, you say there is not enough "new" money and fun players to keep things and letting better regs step up in limits

Yet you want to ban these same players as soon as they get to mid/high stakes

What's the incentive then for them to learn and climb stakes?

These points are totally flawed!


The argument that whales lose their money at higher stakes to top regs is such bs regarding the ecosystem because these same whales aren't interested in playing smaller stakes so if you somehow restrict them playing the stakes and games they want to play they will simply go elsewhere sports betting, private house games or whatever.

Poker needs high stakes as a insensitive for smaller stakes players, and for every whale that does drop their money at a faster rate at high stakes, it is f*** all compared to amount of players that high stakes poker brings to the game of poker.

^^

You clearly don't understand how poker works if you think high stakes and low stakes aren't directly correlated. Lower stakes grinders moving up is where the money comes from. Fish winning money in MTTs is where the money comes from. Guy Libretae (however it is spelled) is just a bonus.