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Old 07-16-2012, 10:48 AM   #51
heater
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Re: **2 Key U.S Senators want to pass a poker bill by the end of 2012: Official Sweat/Discussio

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Originally Posted by jackaaron2012 View Post
I know people, in the US, that play online poker every single day right now.

If the site they played on would get their crap together, and also be able to market a little better, the numbers would be huge. Now, of course, peak is like 7k players.
eh, casual players aren't going to drive to western union in droves to deposit

this isn't a marketing issue
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Old 07-16-2012, 10:58 AM   #52
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Re: **2 Key U.S Senators want to pass a poker bill by the end of 2012: Official Sweat/Discussio

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Originally Posted by RoyalFish View Post
Non starter, IMO. No way in hell I'm giving a poker site my SSN. I want to play, but not that bad.
if you'll give over your drivers license to get a Total Rewards card then this statement doesn't make any sense. the casino isn't gonna identity-theft you. you need to give your soc to open an etrade account too.

and I don't want people playing the new regulated sites without providing proper identification because I want to play on sites where banned players are banned and multiaccounters are being hunted.
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Old 07-16-2012, 10:59 AM   #53
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Re: **2 Key U.S Senators want to pass a poker bill by the end of 2012: Official Sweat/Discussio

Can you Americans imagine it?

I had a roommate in college who would play on pokerstars. I watched him play a few and he would literally play every hand because, according to him, "you can't win if you don't play!". Mind you, he was a smart guy and got a full ride to the college we were at (Ohio State) because of his achievements.

This was just one guy playing poker when it was still mainly back-alley kind of thing in 08. Now imagine regulated US poker. Sure, there will be taxes gallore. Probably more than we pay now. But included with those taxes and regulations will be casinos airing national commercials on TV. Think about it, a commercial about "Play online poker at Wynn.com today!" airing in the middle of NFL games on Sundays. Yeah, we will be taxed out the ass, but the games will be so good that it won't matter.
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Old 07-16-2012, 11:08 AM   #54
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Re: **2 Key U.S Senators want to pass a poker bill by the end of 2012: Official Sweat/Discussio

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackaaron2012 View Post
I know people, in the US, that play online poker every single day right now.

If the site they played on would get their crap together, and also be able to market a little better, the numbers would be huge. Now, of course, peak is like 7k players.

And, I haven't read anywhere that actually said that the site could be seized by the DOJ just because of this.

Isn't it true that the sites that the DOJ were going to seize (or began operations to do so) had that coming because of other infractions outside of just providing poker to US players?
That's essentially correct, but once you add the things the current sites need in order to get more players, marketing and convenient/transparent deposit/withdrawal capability, you've just put your site on the DOJ radar.
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Old 07-16-2012, 11:12 AM   #55
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Re: **2 Key U.S Senators want to pass a poker bill by the end of 2012: Official Sweat/Discussio

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Originally Posted by heater View Post
eh, casual players aren't going to drive to western union in droves to deposit

this isn't a marketing issue
You do realize you can use WU online, right?

/derail
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Old 07-16-2012, 11:18 AM   #56
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Re: **2 Key U.S Senators want to pass a poker bill by the end of 2012: Official Sweat/Discussio

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Originally Posted by tamiller866 View Post
No. Just no.
Why would you say this? It's no secret this legislation exists, and according to Rep. Barton, lobbying is being ramped up on the hill right now to get this passed. Now is not the time to "hide" our support, it's most definately the time to let congress know how we feel.
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Old 07-16-2012, 11:20 AM   #57
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Re: **2 Key U.S Senators want to pass a poker bill by the end of 2012: Official Sweat/Discussio

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Originally Posted by ScreaminAsian View Post
if you'll give over your drivers license to get a Total Rewards card then this statement doesn't make any sense. the casino isn't gonna identity-theft you. you need to give your soc to open an etrade account too.

and I don't want people playing the new regulated sites without providing proper identification because I want to play on sites where banned players are banned and multiaccounters are being hunted.
I'm not worried about the site stealing my id. I'm worried about them stupidly leaving my SSN unencrypted on an Internet accessible site and it getting hacked.

A SSN is also not an ID. If you want positive ID on players, require an ID.

Bottom line. I play for small stakes online. If that requires a mid stakes bet that leaves me cleaning up an identity theft mess, I'm not doing it. At least 3 companies I have accounts with have had data stolen in recent memory. One of those included my social. Don't tell me it won't happen.
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Old 07-16-2012, 11:28 AM   #58
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Re: **2 Key U.S Senators want to pass a poker bill by the end of 2012: Official Sweat/Discussio

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Originally Posted by RoyalFish View Post
I'm not worried about the site stealing my id. I'm worried about them stupidly leaving my SSN unencrypted on an Internet accessible site and it getting hacked.

A SSN is also not an ID. If you want positive ID on players, require an ID.

Bottom line. I play for small stakes online. If that requires a mid stakes bet that leaves me cleaning up an identity theft mess, I'm not doing it. At least 3 companies I have accounts with have had data stolen in recent memory. One of those included my social. Don't tell me it won't happen.
I don't see any reason why a major casino wouldn't make security a top priority. This is going to be a heavily regulated industry. I don't think giving your SSN to a major casino would be any different then giving it to a bank or brokerage firm.
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Old 07-16-2012, 11:28 AM   #59
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Re: **2 Key U.S Senators want to pass a poker bill by the end of 2012: Official Sweat/Discussio

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Originally Posted by GJS70 View Post
Why would you say this? It's no secret this legislation exists, and according to Rep. Barton, lobbying is being ramped up on the hill right now to get this passed. Now is not the time to "hide" our support, it's most definately the time to let congress know how we feel.
Many of these these people don't even show up - particularly one's who lose their re-election bids - for lame duck votes. Why would we want to send them tweets reminding them this bill might get pushed through?

All that does is give them an excuse to sell their position on it to the highest bidder.

Ramping up public debate just ramps up lobbyists and donations, and as long as the threat of this bill exists, the politicians benefit more by debating it than they ever would for passing it.

If Reid thought we could win the debate on this issue, he wouldn't be trying to attach it to another bill, so why would we want to inflame any debate on it?
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Old 07-16-2012, 11:29 AM   #60
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Re: **2 Key U.S Senators want to pass a poker bill by the end of 2012: Official Sweat/Discussio

Don't get too excited. They had an agreement last time but decided to not put in the budget bill. Budget issues will be more severe this time around. Fun to speculate but too many folks take this seriously.
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Old 07-16-2012, 11:38 AM   #61
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Re: **2 Key U.S Senators want to pass a poker bill by the end of 2012: Official Sweat/Discussio

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Originally Posted by KingKongGrinder View Post
I don't see any reason why a major casino wouldn't make security a top priority.
1) it costs money
2) it requires specialized knowledge that can be hard to find or identify unless you have it yourself
3) it distracts you from the actual money-making part of the business

If you work in information security, you long ago quit saying "Oh my god, how could they have been so stupid!" Much like we all defended FTP and said there's no way they'd be anything but fair and honest because they wouldn't risk killing the golden goose.
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Old 07-16-2012, 11:51 AM   #62
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Re: **2 Key U.S Senators want to pass a poker bill by the end of 2012: Official Sweat/Discussio

For those of you who are wondering why Kyl is so powerful and why this is such a mess:
He is the Minority Whip. His whole job is to rally the party (republicans in his case) to vote for or against. Even though he is retiring, going against the leadership is considered bad form in the Senate.

One thing to keep in mind though; this is the Senate. Any one person can hold up legislation, and even the threat of delaying can slow Senate business to a halt. Because important legislation needs to be passed before the new Congress, there is always the chance that Reid and Kyl can ditch it if there is a Senator place a hold. This can be done anonymously, and can absolutely jam up legislation. I personally do not see this happening, but as someone who watches CSPAN and CSPAN2, you would be very surprised.

I highly doubt you would see anything before 2014. The bill would have to get reconciled with House, and then there is going to be lull why they set up rules, regulatory bodies. Then there will be processing license applications and similar bureaucratic issues before we see a hand played. None of this should take more than a few months, but it will likely take some time.

I put plans at 50/50. Its a coin flip.
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Old 07-16-2012, 11:52 AM   #63
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Re: **2 Key U.S Senators want to pass a poker bill by the end of 2012: Official Sweat/Discussio

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyalFish View Post
1) it costs money
2) it requires specialized knowledge that can be hard to find or identify unless you have it yourself
3) it distracts you from the actual money-making part of the business

If you work in information security, you long ago quit saying "Oh my god, how could they have been so stupid!" Much like we all defended FTP and said there's no way they'd be anything but fair and honest because they wouldn't risk killing the golden goose.
Ok. I find it odd someone as paranoid as you was even playing online in the first place. I guess you won't be playing in a regulated environment as I don't see a situation where we get regulated online poker and you don't have to give your SSN.
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Old 07-16-2012, 12:01 PM   #64
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Re: **2 Key U.S Senators want to pass a poker bill by the end of 2012: Official Sweat/Discussio

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Originally Posted by tamiller866 View Post
Many of these these people don't even show up - particularly one's who lose their re-election bids - for lame duck votes. Why would we want to send them tweets reminding them this bill might get pushed through?

All that does is give them an excuse to sell their position on it to the highest bidder.

Ramping up public debate just ramps up lobbyists and donations, and as long as the threat of this bill exists, the politicians benefit more by debating it than they ever would for passing it.

If Reid thought we could win the debate on this issue, he wouldn't be trying to attach it to another bill, so why would we want to inflame any debate on it?
As to your first point, many are actually up for re-election, so letting them know there is overwhelming support can only be a plus.

We are a large community with enough members who care to make a difference, if we all stand up and say so.

Also, when they are hearing from our lobbyists, it can only be a good thing to also hear from their constituents who support this issue.
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Old 07-16-2012, 12:11 PM   #65
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Re: **2 Key U.S Senators want to pass a poker bill by the end of 2012: Official Sweat/Discussio

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Originally Posted by GJS70 View Post
As to your first point, many are actually up for re-election, so letting them know there is overwhelming support can only be a plus.

We are a large community with enough members who care to make a difference, if we all stand up and say so.

Also, when they are hearing from our lobbyists, it can only be a good thing to also hear from their constituents who support this issue.
It's opinion, so I'm obviously not going to say you are 'wrong' to have it, but in my opinion, the only thing these guys will be listening to is the cha ching from their donation register.

Money talks, tweeting squawks
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Old 07-16-2012, 12:11 PM   #66
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Re: **2 Key U.S Senators want to pass a poker bill by the end of 2012: Official Sweat/Discussio

I don't believe it :-)

But I hope it's true.
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Old 07-16-2012, 12:21 PM   #67
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Re: **2 Key U.S Senators want to pass a poker bill by the end of 2012: Official Sweat/Discussio

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Originally Posted by KingKongGrinder View Post
Ok. I find it odd someone as paranoid as you was even playing online in the first place.
Not paranoid. Experienced. I do this stuff for a living.

I used a credit card, back when that was still possible. That comes with very limited risk. I have $0 liability for fraudulent charges. Steal my CC number and I can get a new one. Steal my SSN? Yeah, you can't get a new one. I wouldn't have an issue with giving a taxpayer id that wouldn't let someone take out credit in my name.

I think I've derailed enough. I'm done. :-)
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Old 07-16-2012, 12:24 PM   #68
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Re: **2 Key U.S Senators want to pass a poker bill by the end of 2012: Official Sweat/Discussio

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Originally Posted by tamiller866 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GJS70 View Post
Thanks for this thread, Sluggger. Now's the time to show your support if you haven't in the past, and it only takes a couple of minutes a day at any one of these links:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/57...arket-1037109/
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...arket-1044393/
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...arket-1044738/

gogogo!
No. Just no.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamiller866 View Post
It's opinion, so I'm obviously not going to say you are 'wrong' to have it, but in my opinion, the only thing these guys will be listening to is the cha ching from their donation register.

Money talks, tweeting squawks
GTFO!

Last edited by mapleleaf; 07-16-2012 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 07-16-2012, 12:33 PM   #69
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Re: **2 Key U.S Senators want to pass a poker bill by the end of 2012: Official Sweat/Discussio

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Originally Posted by LVpokerPRO View Post
I've always wondered what poker would be like if regulated in the USA....
Would every table we sit at, ever penny we make and leave with, be tracked for taxes? Every transfer, etc etc show up on taxes?

Also, I don't trust Harry Reid....he's bought and paid for by Harrah's and is total scum
While it is true that Reid is supported by Harrahs, the consideration for renewing online poker in the US is probably going to happen. The Las Vegas strips just announced that revenue for the past quarter was down 10% for the past quarter and Caesars Entertainment stock is down.

I think that the casinos and Nevada can put enough pressure on the Congress to get something done. We can only hope so because who knows what will happen after the general elections in November.
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Old 07-16-2012, 12:43 PM   #70
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Re: **2 Key U.S Senators want to pass a poker bill by the end of 2012: Official Sweat/Discussio

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GTFO!
I already did, shortly after BF, I now in the Philippines.
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Old 07-16-2012, 12:45 PM   #71
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Re: **2 Key U.S Senators want to pass a poker bill by the end of 2012: Official Sweat/Discussio

money talks and bull**** walks.. this CAN get done if the right pockets are greased.. if they aren't nothing will happen.. that's how this **** works these days.. Casinos can and will get it done, they NEED a new revenue source.. everyone has access to local Casinos now, no reason for destination gambling mecha's.
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Old 07-16-2012, 12:51 PM   #72
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Re: **2 Key U.S Senators want to pass a poker bill by the end of 2012: Official Sweat/Discussio

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Posting in another epic slugger thread. Btw, it should be noted, for those not following this closely, that Kyl is 95% of our opposition in the Senate. Him being on board (in exchange for a no-show job when he retires) is just huge for our chances.
Yes. Most sources claim that Kyl was the #1 reason we failed to pass the bill in Dec. 2010. He is for sure on board and our chances are considerably better this time around!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamiller866 View Post
The whole idea is to 'sneak' it through under the umbrella of another piece of 'must pass' legislation ala the Safe Port Act, only the House actually debated and voted on a free standing version of that (UIGEA) bill.

This thread and any other 'Daily Action' attention given to the movement of this bill has the production value of putting up "One Time, Yankees!" signs on the beaches of Normandy months before the operation.

I don't the the DAP is giving attention to some secret plan but rather general support of online poker. You may be tactically correct is saying we should not tweet "hey support this secret Reid/Kyl attachment" but saying "please support my right to play online poker" goes a long way.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil9 View Post
It seems like we have gotten teases like this every year since 2007. Either do it or STFU up about it already.
Definitely understand this frustration, but we have to keep pushing. Even if it fails this December you can know that it was the best shot we have had to date and I think our chances will only continue to improve long term.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GJS70 View Post
Thanks for this thread, Sluggger. Now's the time to show your support if you haven't in the past, and it only takes a couple of minutes a day at any one of these links:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/57...arket-1037109/
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...arket-1044393/
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...arket-1044738/

gogogo!

+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoomie123 View Post
Don't get too excited. They had an agreement last time but decided to not put in the budget bill. Budget issues will be more severe this time around. Fun to speculate but too many folks take this seriously.
They did not have an agreement. Kyl was not on board with the terms of that bill. Apparently he is now. This should be taken very seriously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tygrayfox View Post
While it is true that Reid is supported by Harrahs, the consideration for renewing online poker in the US is probably going to happen. The Las Vegas strips just announced that revenue for the past quarter was down 10% for the past quarter and Caesars Entertainment stock is down.

I think that the casinos and Nevada can put enough pressure on the Congress to get something done. We can only hope so because who knows what will happen after the general elections in November.

This is all true, but don't assume that these casino interests have full control of the ball. State lotteries, native american gaming, state governments, and of course anti-gambling folks all have voices in the ears of Congress. These interests need to be satisfied as part of this deal.


Kyl's support indicates to me that the anti-gambling crowd will be on board. Now we need to hope those other interests are too.
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Old 07-16-2012, 12:54 PM   #73
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Re: **2 Key U.S Senators want to pass a poker bill by the end of 2012: Official Sweat/Discussio

It feels like hype for the PPA to profit from the situation......
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Old 07-16-2012, 12:56 PM   #74
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Re: **2 Key U.S Senators want to pass a poker bill by the end of 2012: Official Sweat/Discussio

Is there a decent chance that the bill wouldn't include a blackout period this time around? My understanding was that the casinos wanted it to clear out offshore competition and give themselves a fresh start at the U.S. market, but now that Stars and FTP are gone and the only remaining U.S. facing sites are tiny in comparison, maybe they now just want to get everything up and running ASAP?
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Old 07-16-2012, 01:13 PM   #75
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Re: **2 Key U.S Senators want to pass a poker bill by the end of 2012: Official Sweat/Discussio

Everyone, please sign the petition!

https://www.change.org/petitions/let...g-online-poker
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