Hi Everyone:

I won't repeat any details here, but suffice it to say there has been an issue concerning one of our advertisers RPM Poker and their on site representative RPMSeth. So what's our response to all of this.

First, it's important to say that 2+2 is concerned with seeing things run in an honest and open manner, plus the delivery of a good product. This is not only our policy for what we produce, but it's also our policy relative to any of our advertising partners. And it is clear that RPMSeth has violated what we hold important to the integrity of www.twoplustwo.com.

So the question now is how do we go about addressing this issue. The two extremes are to either throw RPM Poker off of 2+2, or to pretend that nothing happened. We have concluded that neither of these is an appropriate course.

The reason for rejecting the first extreme is, as far as we know, RPM Poker has been a good product. Their software (from the Merge Network) works well, their customer service is satisfactory, their games are good, and it's one of the last places that US players can still find Internet poker games.

The reason for rejecting the second extreme is that the mistakes made by RPMSeth are simply too egregious to ignore. Violating the confidence and trust of our posters is a serious mistake, even if the intention was somewhat benign.

So what we have done is three fold. First, we have allowed and welcomed discussion of the problems in a couple of threads on this forum. The misdeeds are now public knowledge.

Second, we have required a public apology from RPMSeth. This has now been done, and we believe the apology is sincere and that he understands the mistakes which have been made and why it is important not to repeat them in the future.

And third, we have made it clear in private conversations with both RPMSeth and other representatives from RPM Poker exactly where 2+2 stands on this matter and why there can be no repeat of it in the future. We have also communicated that if a repeat does occur, our response will be appropriate and more to the point than what we are doing now.

I also want to point out one other fact. The climate for poker, as everyone here should know, is now very bad. The events surrounding Full Tilt Poker are affecting everyone in this business. Specifically for poker entities suchs as an Internet poker room to survive they need new players. This is a fact that's also relevant to all of us. It's true for a publishing and Internet company such as 2+2, and it's also true for those of us who play as individuals whether on the Internet or in live games.

This now brings us to my final point. Over the years, and yes I've been around for a long time, one observation that I've noticed is that when under pressure people will often say or do things they shouldn't. Put another way, people will sometimes do something as a way of releasing pressure and later realize that this is something which they shouldn't have done. And this is exactly what I believe has happened here.

Best wishes,

Mason Malmuth
Owner and Publisher
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Interactive LLC
www.twoplustwo.com

Solid OP.

Agree.

Well done 2+2. Good call.

I agree. I def wouldn't throw away income because of one persons misguided actions. At least his name was actually Seth.

While i don't agree the apology was sincere I do agree throwing them off would be too harsh.

I think first point, isn't so much a punishment as an expectation of 2+2.


I think a more appropiate punishment would be to say sticky a link to the NVG thread on the RPM for a period of say 6 months good behaviour. That way people won't feel the need to keep bumping the issue until Seth responds properly, which he seems he has no intention of doing.

Good response.

Agree, thank you for posting, Mason.

I agree with having some kind of sticky about what happend for a few months so anyone interested in RPM can look at it

TBH I agree with this as well. People have said that Seth is not allowing discussion of this in the RPM subforum, although I haven't checked that for myself. A specific time period for a thread to be allowed in the forum would ensure RPM customers knew about this, since they are the ones that most need the info so they can make their own decision on what they want to do.

2+2 always trustworthy to make a good decision.

I agree with everything you say but question the bolded part, I dont consider the way Seth has handled things as apologetic.

His response was this:

I personally think this post did nothing but make things worse. Look its no secret i dislike Seth. I think he handles everything the wrong way. I didn't all but stop playing on rpm because I didn't get good customer support or b/c I was unhappy with the site. I stopped playing on the site b/c Seth won't ever answer any tough questions (not just this) and because he censors his forum terribly (not just me). I dint get why he is in the business of sheltering everything in his forum, his competitor Lock Poker doesn't do so. He also has a history of doing relatively harmless but stupid things, (ie - spamming people).

Lastly I would like to say the shilling he did while ignorant is pretty harmless in the big scheme of things, I think it is very very unlike he was actually looking to buy RPM Money (I hope anyway). But the question I have to ask myself is, "How in the hell can I trust this guy in this environment when he makes that post and refuses to address it?" and then to go on and say that people who ask about it our gossiping and making allegations???? Were quoting you Seth, nobody is making anything up.

When the cracks begin to show, I walk away...

I won't be playing there. :/

Seth 100% has blocked any conversation of this in his forum. He has deleted threads of mine and that others have started. He finally let a link to the NVG thread go up last night from another poster (all be it after he deleted that posters first thread then edited the one with the link). This is my major issue with seth and it just isn't around this controvery. He is known for deleting anything in his forum that may portray him / his site in a bad light.

I actually spoke to Mat about this via PM. I understand his / 2+2's position in letting Seth run his forum the way he wants, he pays for the power to delete what he wants. He only gets that power in his forum however and if he abuses it in his forum ultimately he will pay for it in other forums (which I personally think he is)

Lock recently had a scandal (and a worse one than this) They have a stickied discussion about it in their forum. They also had a thread about the subject poker article in their forum. Seth just nukes that kind of thing, whether he is shady or not is besides the point, as long as he nukes everything controversial in his forum people will question his integrity. I mean if you have nothing to hide, why hide it???


EDIT: I'D like to add a message for Seth. You spend alot of time looking at these posts in NVG w/o ever responding - that makes you a coward.

Excuse me I go by Seth.

fair decision IMO but I do think we should ask him to clarify his covert chip buying offer. His explanation makes no sense and to say he won't address it any further in that weak statement that's suppose to be an apology just doesn't sit well at all.

Why you would continue to do business with shady people is beyond me. Mark my words, this is just the tip of the iceberg.

With all of the shadiness I have seen recently, to have Mason come out and make this statement... sounds legit.
/like a boss

A-

Good Statement.

Though I don't agree about the apology, he managed to sneak "speculative journalism" in there and his reasons for anonymous comments are poor (other skins publicly commented on the article on 2p2), so it didn't amount to much of an apology to me.

And while a tough climate is true for most of us, RPM/Merge has a lot more customers this year than last, unlike most people in the poker world.

Regardless, I'm glad to see your statement here and openness to the community.

MM, so in other words, the beat goes on, 2p2 keeps collecting checks from RPM, and in the future those employing RPMSeth's tactics will just have to go about their business via VPNs, broadband aircards, and other not so easily traced IP addresses?! Please be so kind and point out what I missed!

Edit: even though I have yet to actually read RPMSeth's official "apology", but isn't this where we get Skalansky to point out that the appology is meanigless and at least a part of the well-thought-out OP is IRRELEVANT DUCY?.............drum beat..............

@ d3 I dont see how Mason's handling of the situation has any bearing on the possibilities of what you suggest in your first paragraph.

bro sorry to be the one to break the news to you, but there is this thing called money. I know I know it's all so confusing and just doesn't make much sense, but it is what it is!

As one prominent economist pointed out, Gary Becker, IIRC, there are basically two direct methods for detering crime. 1) increase the enforcement, or 2) increase the severity of the punishment. Those committing crimes implicitly do estimate expectation and the actual cost of the crime is the probability of getting caught multiplied by severity of the punishment. #1 applies to enforcement, where as #2 ldo applies to the latter.

Yes, obviously. But there is also something called a reputation and once tarnished, it is rarely repairable. Imho, Mason dropped the ball on this one.