Please do not crap on saying that what Steve did was not theft. Even he has admitted this is the case. What happened is theft - FACT.

Secondly any court would order him to repay the stolen money, plus costs (legal, recovery etc), that is what admo is looking for and rightly so.

Consider himself lucky for getting the money back? Someone steals something from you and its your fault? Are you an idiot?

Thats like saying I buy something on ebay, from a power seller with 100's of positive feedbacks, for $1000. They don't send the item then suddenly its my stupid fault for handing over the money? What the hell?

Admo wasn't handing over money, he was trading the money. Its not his fault he got stolen from.

god ppl are dumb. his lawyer advises him to not talk about it in public until it has been resolved. he complies - and that makes him a scumbag? he doesnt want $4k stolen from him and that makes him a scumbag too?

If Steve asked for the money knowing, he wasn't going to pay it back thats a "felony".

If he did intend to pay it back originally, but once he gambled it away he intended to get away without paying, that is still a felony.

If the only reason he wound up paying was because of the threat of legal action it is STILL a felony.

But if none of the above is true, I say the crime has turned into a misdemeanor with extenuating circumstances.

QFLDO...

Anyone who thinks Admo is in the wrong here (or has behaved less than admirably at any point during this entire ordeal) is completely brain dead.

Stak.

edit: ZOMG first after Sklansky unintentionally. What a milestone, Sklansky ventures into NVG and actually makes a good point.

Looks like Mason let DS of his leash. Thats good for NVG IMO

Maybe so, but he should concentrate on poker, not law.

It's beyond me why anyone believes that Admo shouldn't pursue every dollar he's out. Sure, he made a poor choice and he's admitted that several times. Just because Admo made a mistake doesn't mean that Steven isn't fully responsible to repay all Admo's costs. This idea that because someone is partially responsible for a situation somehow mitigates the other parties culpability annoys me greatly. If, in the end, Admo is out a few grand he'll know and we'll all know that that's the cost of a bad decision. However, that in no way means that Steven shouldn't have paid those extra costs.

I respectfully disagree. I think the post above by DS will incite the feuding lawyers to once again make 100 page long posts talking about why DS is wrong and so are all the other lawyers on this forum.

any loving family able to put their son through 4 years at a good college will likely band together to help him out in this spot.

Mass degeneracy on Cornell's part obviously. No excuse for that. Asking for an apology makes you look really silly after what JP posted.

I hope you get the rest of the money owed, Admo. Good luck.

Steve…. through owning responsibility for your addictive actions you paradoxically appear to be attempting to legitimize a denial of your gambling problem. The accompanying anti-degen stats are more of the same.

Taken at face value, your letter pretty much depicts you as the poster boy for the twenty ? , still you appear not yet there as far as admitting you need professional help. You might want to do yourself and the family you care so much about a kindness by attending a single GA meeting and requesting feedback on your story.

If you don’t have a problem, it’s just an evening of your life. If you discover that you might benefit from help, a lot of future misery could possibly be cut short.

Kailua, I think also though, what Steve was trying to say, is that he isn't blaming anyone else for what he did, he's taking full responsiblity for it.

I also think Steve is misconstruing the part about 'Being powerless over your addiction' as trying to get off the hook (an excuse if you will) for being irrisponsible (which Steve was trying to say he accepted full responsiblity for what he did, and didn't want to use that as an 'out' if you will to get out of taking responsiblity).

I know with addicts, that the urge to do something you know is wrong, can be an irresistable (and sometimes overpowering) feeling and pull to do it (the addictive behaviour) at the time it's happening, and I think that's what the pamplet he read was trying to say.

However, I do agree with Steve, about the word 'powerless' because if that was the fact, no one would be able to ever to control their addictions what so ever. In other words, if the Addict was truly powerless, then the addiction would always be winning and the addict would never be able to get their addiction under control at all, no matter what help they were given.

This is because even an Addict has to make a Choice and decide enough is enough, and to take the responsiblity upon themselves to get any needed help in order to be able to turn their lives around.

Part of the Programs that are out there, also say that the road to recovery is that the addict must accept responsiblity for their (addictive) actions/behaviours, make restitution when called for, and ask for forgiveness (I know this in part, because I grew up with a Father who was an Alcoholic).

This part here of Steve's post, really got my attention, and made me think that Steve has indeed learned an important lesson here:

I hope that CF and Admo can resolve the issues regarding the legal fees (think of it this way Steve, if you would of had to of paid Admo juice on the money, it would of been most likely about that much anyway (about 5k)), then they both can move on and be done with this chapter of their lives.

I am pretty sure that GA does not address the problems that potential winning gamblers, who enjoy action too much, face. I believe they never admit plus EV bets are actually usually good things. They don't address obtaining steely willpower to stick to those bets. And they imply that believing in a personal God is a rational and useful thing to do.

That may work well when the illness is similar to alchoholism. I don't think it applies here though.

wow what a piece of ****

Poll: who has the worst reputation, David Sklansky or Cornel Fiji?

CF --

I'm glad that you settled the debt... I'm the kid who did a $5k "red or black" flop bet with you at a $1k satellite at WSOP this year. While you certainly don't deserve a round of applause for meeting your original promise (and nothing more), I'm still happy to see you did the right thing. Just promise me that next year you won't beg me to come play the O8 game at Bellagio with you :-)

I can't believe some of you are still talking about this piece of **** like you would still associate with him. If I ever see Steven Ware I'm going to let everyone within 100 feet know he is the absolute scum of the earth.

I don't think Steve is getting what he deserves in this forum. Or to phrase it more precisely, he is getting a lot of things he does not deserve: the earlier unbridled adulation over his contributions to the AP/UB scandals, and the unfounded speculation and some of the criticism that followed his screw-up with Admo's money.

He did do work on the AP/UB thing. Even if it was only acting as secretary, that would be valuable and onerous. However I have reason to believe that he did more than just act as secretary. He did useful investigation following up the ownership questions - questions that will have to be answered if we are ever to really get to the bottom of what happened at AP and UB and whether they are now safe sites.

Perhaps most usefully, he kept the issue in the public eye, or at least in front of 2+2 readers. That has been missing now for some weeks, and we are the worse for its absence.

Some of his work was, IMO, flawed. He reached conclusions that were, again IMO, unproven. But many people here just cheered him on and took all he said as gospel. Now it seems we have people going the opposite route, and denying him credit for what he did actually do, and also denying him things like the benefit of the doubt and some much needed sympathy. (Cue the people saying that by his actions he has forfeited any right to either of these.)

The fact is that life, like poker, is a game of incomplete information. When it comes to what Steve did with the money, and attempts to recover it, and how much work Steve did on the AP/UB scandal, we don't have the whole story. Might I respectfuly suggest that without complete knowledge, it is sometimes foolish to pass judgement when you don't have to? And even when one is satisfied that there is enough information to make a sound judgement, one might wish to keep in mind something that may have been said a couple of millenia ago "Let him who is without fault cast the first stone."

IMO, the extremes to which some people have gone WRT their reactions to Steve - both the positive reactions re AP/UB, and the negative reactions more recently, are unjustified and disturbing. Mob mentality. Some people are too inclined to paint in only black or white, and too quick to choose which of those they will use.

1) Am I the only one who finds it interesting that neither Steve nor Admo directly claims that Steve has paid Admo back? Both use the passive voice.

2) I wonder if Admo's lawyer knows about SWIAT. The gag order being in place while the holding page remains up is a bit hard to understand.

3) I wonder how Admo's lawyer feels about Admo posting now ITT.

aw thanks

i'm posting this from my toilet....

- the only reason CF paid up is the legal action/threat of legal action. this legal action costs money. if Admo hadn't done this, Steve wouldn't have paid. maybe in a few months... but certainly not as quick as he did.

so... the legal action was needed and it needs to be paid.

- people noticed that both Admo and CF use the words "$30k was sent". i believe this means $30k was sent by somene other than CF directly. most likely his parents or a friend.

glad to see it has been mostly resolved. CF - PAY THE LEGAL COSTS ASAP OR IT WILL BE ANOTHER $30K AGAIN BEFORE YOU KNOW IT!

Admo is a badass.....that is all

lmao at "a gag order by my lawyer"


hey fool the lawyer works for you....not you for him,he cant order anything

LDO of course it was sent from a third party, whether it be his parents or some other random on his behalf. It's not like Steve saved up 30k+ in his piggy bank in the last 6 weeks. The guy's net worth is probably WAY below zero. Doesn't really matter who it was sent from.

LOL, leave David alone. He's just like that weird uncle you have that always talks about the time he almost made on Jeopardy. You just nod along and when you leave the room you just chuckle and shake your head.