I don't like the American health care system either, but probably 95% of those people who would be bankrupt over a $10k medical bill have completely wasted more than $1k each year over the past 10 years.
And mostly on things that make them more likely to have medical bills, like cigarettes, alcohol, drugs, and fast food.

You admit taking the high deductible plan is the positive EV gamble, for most at least

So your post amounted to, “yeah but it sucks when you lose”. But that’s obvious

Did not post to debate US health system. But my first impressions are that you are incorrect and people with really low incomes would be on Medicaid. So you would have to make more to not qualify for Medicaid but 10K bankrupts you. Doesn’t sound right, but I don’t care too much

Poker isn’t and has never been a very sensible career path unless you’re from a poor country. You get into it because you love it.

It is because most people whose incomes are just a bit too high to qualify for Medicaid are terrible money managers.

Well I don’t care, most jobs of that income range probably don’t have super rich health plans with a job so they probably have same type of high deductible. So it’s all same anyway.

So whether you have job or not, it’s same situation. Except it might cost you $50 without the job.

Take health care talk elsewhere

For most people poker works best as a hobby or side hustle. And this whole thread is a bit cringe trying to compare 100K to 300K. The thing that keep going around in my mind is that even if you did try to make a reasonable comparison between 100K poker and 300K job, that 200K difference passively compounding interest in a bank account makes this a no brainer.

But if this is only about which is easier, then poker is a lot easier. I had a friend working in a warehouse packing tooth paste. There was no way he was going to ever make 300K a year at a job. But he got tired of standing on his feet all day on a concrete slab in a warehouse and learned how to play poker and now sits in a live casino making 100K.

This.

This. If one has any common sense, they would go pro only if they check one or more of the following:
- Very young/not many responsibilities so can take aggressive shots and rebuild if necessary
- Living in a LCOL area/country so living expenses don't eat up most of the profit
- Being able to beat at least mid-stakes online (I guess at least 5/10 live)

100k vs. 300k is a total no-brainer decision. Living in a HCOL area, I would even choose a traditional career at even 100k vs. 100k due to the safety and benefits it provides. I have never been a full-time pro, but I would consider myself been a semi-pro between 2010-14 during undergrad and I would absolutely never choose poker as a serious careerpath. The negatives caused by the lack of life security, basically no transferrable skills, and the unforeseeable factors outside of player's control (regulatory changes, sites going bankrupt, etc) simply don't outweigh having a "normal" job. Just because one makes 100k from poker now, the fact cannot be used to extrapolate that this will always be the case. Who knows how the landscape will look in 10 years considering most formats are more or less solved. Poker offers basically no skills that are useful in other fields as nobody cares about being able to estimate equities or ranges in the real world.

For some reason majority of poker players talk about having "freedom" and seem to view having a job as being slave to the man, but from my experience, it's more laziness and yearning for less life responsibilities. This is evident in this very thread as people are bringing up ridiculous hyperboles as the reasons not to work (having to work ridiculous hours, having to travel all the time) and while high-hour/high-stress works such as doctors or pilots do exist, 99% of occupations are extremely low stress and bounded to 9 to 5. I work in machine learning research so my days are mostly spent in front of whiteboards or coding and it's infinitely less hours (not only playing but also studying and trying to stay ahead of the curve) and stress I would likely experience trying to be a pro and earn the same amount.

Research is different, but I see software engineering bootcamp graduates with no previous experience leverage their skills into developer positions all the time. And even if you don't live in a HCOL area, it's not that difficult to breach the 100k barrier with 2-3 YoE. At the end of the day, it's all about individual's own willpower and motivation and based on what I have observed, many full-time poker pros have successfully gaslit themselves to think that they are somehow ahead or better off than having a regular job while in fact they are still trying to compete in a race they have already lost.

I think part of the confusion here is that people are assuming pro poker players are working at least 40 hours a week. The most I have ever regularly played is 30 hours a week.
I currently live in a a higher rent area than I did then, and I average maybe 20 hours per week.

I have low expenses and no desire to work full time. There are very few part time jobs which have decent pay and/or a career ladder to even eventually make decent money. I don't know of any where one could make $40 or more per hour even if they had skills that I don't have.

As someone who works from home in IT, it would take a lot more than $100k a year to tempt me into a full time poker career.

I guess my company may be an outlier in the benefits offered, but there is similar available in the market.
- Sick pay (2 weeks a year standard pay, 3 months if signed off on decreased pay)
- 30 days holiday, bank holidays and an extra day of holiday added each 5 years worked at company
- £1k per year personal training material allowance
- £1k per year personal health allowance (for dental/glasses etc)
- Health/life insurance
- Up to 30% salary as bonus
- Matched pension contribution up to 10%
- Discount share options
- 2 days paid volunteering

That said, there are careers I have worked in the past that I would hate to go back to and would rather do poker. Those being Sales, Recruitment or Customer Service.

In live games, going 24/7 the house drop (rake + jackpot) conservatively - very conservatively - amounts to 1,600,000. With tips and food/drinks that goes up to about 2,000,000. With a player pool of a very generous 200, that's 10k per person that has to be accounted for before the winners get there share. I doubt there are that many winners.

As to average salary, idiot government workers routinely make 100k (+gold standard healthcare/beneifts), 6 figure bus drivers, janitors, cops, etc., are not uncommon (I live in SF, but this is probably true in most of CA and other states).

Not to be critical, but poker pro (for many) is a euphemism for voluntarily unemployed or under-employed.

And you think that is a bad thing? I greatly prefer to work as little as possible, and have never understood anyone who felt otherwise.

Didn't say it was bad. If you can pay your expenses and save a little, more power to you - and you can call yourself a pro. Those who can't and are leeching/scamming off others can hardly be called pro.

I am sorry you have never heard the phrase "Picking up nickels in front of steamrollers."

Positive EV doesn't matter when the downside is potentially the loss of your life.

LOL. Clowns gonna clown.

It is quite hilarious that you cannot admit you are wrong. Let me give you some life help so people will stop laughing at you.

It is ok to admit you are wrong on occasion. No one is perfect and look at being wrong as a learning opportunity. Nothing wrong with learning something new on occasion.

Come on now, having a high deductible health insurance policy isn't going to kill you. I have never even heard of a hospital which made you pay cash in advance. The worst it could do is cause you to file bankruptcy, but if you're capable of saving the amount of your deductible, there's no risk even of that.

It’s a good thing for the lazy underachievers but obv society frowns upon it

I've done both...law and poker, at the same time and individually. Never made huge money from law jobs but I was never in it for the money, moreso to help people.

A friend once told me the world doesn't need poker. The world needs other professions, however, like doctors, lawyers, . . . with some professions you have a sense of purpose that you'll never have playing for a living. Doing good for society.

But with poker, there's a moral cringe surrounding the game as your goal is to take other hapless people's money from them. Never really felt that way about being a lawyer. Pretty noble profession.

Poker got too lucrative for me at some point and the stress of working two jobs was too much so I paused the law career. This was mainly for personal financial reasons but also lifestyle. I didn't enjoy being on a set schedule or attending meetings where everyone talks about what they're doing to prove they're actually working.

If I was making $300k annually as a lawyer I guarantee I would have way less free time and get less sleep, and have lower quality of life outside of work. To me, that trade off isn't worth it. I would prefer making a little less but having more time, flexibility, and self-direction, not having to answer to anyone (except Uncle Sam). I lose some of the good feelings of helping others but I've accomplished a lot already and I am content with my past contributions, mainly by helping deserving people get out of prison.

One day, I hope to be rich enough from poker to fund law projects I am passionate about, like assisting mentally ill people who are incarcerated. So I will still be able to do good, while doing well.

hah....good one!

Obviously depends on the area of law but some of them certainly aren't noble.

I knew someone was going to call me out for that one.

I meant in general. There are some legal jobs that I wouldn’t include in that category. I’ve run good in my law jobs so my perspective is somewhat slanted.

Why did you quote my post? What does it have to do with what you said? You live in SF which is a HCOL area. I live in the northeast which is also one. Making 100k as an “idiot govt worker” does not equate to making 300k doing anything. You can be critical, judgmental or call being a poker pro a euphemism for anything you want. My one friend who makes 100k grinding 2/5 at parx is a sex addict who buys hookers on a regular basis. Maybe he is a lowlife but that does not change the fact that he makes 100k playing poker. The OP compared making 100k playing poker to making 300k at a career. How can you compare 100k to 300k for anything? Also I think a lot of opinions in this thread are based on playing online. Making 100k a year playing live poker is going to be much easier to achieve than a finding or working you way up to a career making 300k.

I was going to say that there are tons of people with nice sales jobs who never graduated college making a well above average income

OP compared difficulty not preference. Say 300k is top 5-6% for income in Philadelphia, it may be a higher percentage for all I know. It's 9% of households in MA, and that includes rural areas/households, but I'd guess 80% of the time the income is from one source either through a spouse or a single member household. Do you think 5-6% of the regs make that? What percentage do in your opinion at Parx? My guess is somewhere around 1-2%.

Poker's a good path for convicts, most of whom won't have a shot at making it into the corporate world...

Huh?

Um no, losing means you are out 10K deductible