well there is a difference between live and online pros
i was a online cash pro for 10+ years and i will not only have at much freedom in life again when i retire. But in todays online environment it might be a lot harder to get that kind of freedom compared to the olden days

So you're a multi millionaire? I googled % of American households making over 300k and it said 2.3% - now that's for a household not individual, so my guess is individuals making over 300k is about half that. So 98.5% of the population doesn't make 300k - you act like making 300k is a joke. Think you're out of touch with reality, dude.

That's pretty awesome. I have a friend who makes around 120k a year working for someone - has to travel about once a month, works 40 hours a week, and gets calls outside of his 40 hour work week adding additional time. Awful awful existence imo.

I just want to know how much floatingtheriver lost

The opportunity to make 150K+ in a normal market in the US is there for almost anyone. The reason a vast majority don't is because they are either a risk adverse, one-track thinking nit, a lazy POS, or are well below a normal intelligence level in both the book sense and street/common sense. Almost anyone with a good head on their shoulders who is willing to do the work and the research needed should be able to make 150K+ after the first 5 years or so of working. Real Estate, finance, and insurance offer plenty of sales and commission based opportunities as well.

Now, getting to the point of making 150K+ from your primary occupation can be very difficult but again, your one-track minded if that is your only stream of income. There are so many different investment opportunities out there that don't always require a lot of up front capital, and I am certainly not taking about scammy type crap, that if you are not having your money work for you in some way, you are truly missing the boat financially. Real estate is just one of many fairly easy opportunities.

Being able to have a fairly flexible schedule is quite easy as well after a few years. It is when you add marriage and kids into the equation it becomes more difficult, but that is true if your a poker player as well. Also, the amount of hours and time you would need to put into studying and working on your game in poker to be able to get to a level of making 100K+ consistently would be equal to if not exceed what you would have to put into the job market to get the point of making 150K+.

Consistently making 100K+ per year in poker is exceedingly more difficult, especially if you add in having the ability to also plan for the future financially. The key pat of that is consistently making 100K/yr where variance will not affect your ability to make 100K+ every year.

Yeah.

What it comes down to I think, is that running good is easy.

It's easy to make a royal flush in video poker. You just push some buttons and there it is.

If you catch some breaks, it's easy to land a $150k job. You apply and get hired.

You didn't climb mount everest or anything. Couldn't anyone who is pretty bright and hardworking do this?

Nope. There are only so many slots. There are a few geniuses/dynamos destined for success. The rest of the slots go to the lucky, connected, etc.

You just never know that you got your foot in the door cuz some guy read your application after an enjoyable lunch instead of after his wife bugged him at work.

I think like a billion, if not more. I’m switching to slots as I think I’ll lose less fast, which will further erode the poker economy.

OP is one of the most laughable posts I've read in a while. This guy is delusional. Hard to imagine someone more out of touch with reality.

1. 300k is way the hell more than you're thinking. Most everyone I know in the US has multiple degrees and very few of them make 300k+.

2. Making 100k a year in poker isn't hard. There are hundreds of absolute clowns who aren't even very good at the game doing this every year in live poker without breaking a sweat or ever having to worry about studying. The online grinders on average probably make a bit less but still enough to survive comfortably in the vast majority of the world.

3. Making far less than 100k and choosing to play poker over an average job is better because of the freedom it gives you. And most places in the world you can easily survive on far, far less.

The average person who plays poker for a living for 10+ years (meaning that it's someone who has been doing it long term and knows what they're doing) is living a better life than the average college graduate in the US. And it's not even close. The freedom the career gives you is one of the best parts.

I love when people talk about the freedom poker gives you and then most poker grinders use that freedom to have shitty sleep schedules, poor diets, fragile self worth tied to their ability to make money playing poker, no social lives, and no fitness routine.

There is something to be said about sacrificing short term "freedom" to live a more balanced life.

None of these negative habits necessarily have anything to do with playing poker for a living.

For example, I have had insomnia. My entire life, which results in bad erratic sleeping schedules. My life was miserable when I couldn't get to sleep until 4am and had to wake up at 7. After several nights of this I would literally be crying while pressing the snooze button and many times calling in sick. Now I can sleep as late as I want and am not miserable because of lack of sleep.

I actually eat somewhat better as well, because I have time to make something healthy instead of grabbing whatever I can while rushing to make it to work on time.

Haha, you're probably right about being out of touch with reality.

I'd guess the psychological profile of someone who is willing to stunt their long term earning potential for short term "freedom" is exactly the type of person to be unwilling to do the short term things they don't want to do for their long term benefit. eg: eating healthy, exercising, sleeping well etc. You can take this further into studying sims and hand reviews and get to a solid hypothesis for why high stakes players are typically more physically healthy than their smaller stakes counterparts.

Studies have shown that college graduates are overall healthier across the board than non graduates. There doesn't seem to be a consensus as to why that is but seems pretty straight forward psychologically. They are more willing to do things they might not necessarily want to in the moment because they know it will make things better down the line.

This claim is beyond dubious. Most poker players I know are miserable. Most of the posters on this forum have glaring personality disorders.

It depends on what you value I suppose. But most winning poker players I know are not miserable. Many losing ones seem to be.

I know some winners who are absolutely miserable bc they're basically stuck. They aren't big winners but still win,never saved it invested Money,their win rates are shrinking each year and they have no other real options. A lot of these people I've seen or played with for a decade and back then they played way bigger and carried themselves completely differently. They're worn down by poker.

Yeah that could be; I haven't been around many other pros in the last 10 years. Of course, I wasn't speaking of just pros, but any winning players. The poker players who are probably the happiest are those with a regular job or who are retired or have some other way to pay the bills. They're good at poker and consistently win at their usual stakes but don't have to rely on poker to pay the bills.

Agreed. Well these people and the crushers.

50k a year other career. Probably worth more with benefits and infinite less stress. No upside in poker either. People like to think you can make exponentially more money the longer you play but more than likely you make less. Lot of downtime/study time/wasted time/travel time in poker as well. You will probably work way more if you include that and have an unbalanced lifestyle if you are a low stakes/midstakes professional poker player. You start off low at a normal job but there's way more room for growth without as much commitment.

I think liking what you do/finding it interesting or challenging is more important than salary as long as you make enough to survive/provide for your needs though (everyone's needs are different and a family's needs are way more than individuals and long-term security is crucial for families). There's a lot of miserable millionaires but it's pretty hard to be miserable if you get paid to do something you love and have everything you need.

The benefits, especially health insurance are obviously a huge plus for the regualar job.

OTOH, for most non-Americans their poker income is tax free. That's a huge difference if you're making 100k+.

It's all relative. Just because there are fewer poker pros making 100k per year than people making 300k doing something else doesn't mean it is harder.

I don't have any readily available opportunities to make 300k a year and I made over 100k a year last year in poker, it being my first year playing full time starting in August. So making 300k per year not doing poker would be much harder for me than making 100k per year. 300k from poker also is probably easier.

There are plenty of reasons people don't often make more than 100k per year besides it being hard. People may never have considered playing poker professionally. They may never have gotten into poker at all. There may not be readily available good games where they live. They may have risk aversion and don't feel comfortable risking thousands of dollars per hand. They may lack the bankroll or the stomach. There is a stigma around being a poker pro, it may be hard to tell your family and social circle. And someone may be able to earn 300k per year doing something else, but they might lack certain temperaments and aptitude to become a winning poker professional. They may just not find poker fun enough to sit and grind sessions that can be incredibly boring, not to mention emotionally taxing, let alone study for hours upon hours away from the poker table.

Health insurance/benefits are often a cited reason, but honestly this isn't a huge deal, it's just a part of compensation.

Same. Insomnia wasn't as severe as yours, but any schedule where I have to wake up at a fixed time, especially early morning, will make me miserable.

All through high school I was dead tired and often slept away much of the weekend. Slept in class, etc.

Saying "just have better sleep habits" is a bit like saying "just be 7 feet tall and play in the NBA."

There are a lot of other reasons people could be unhappy grinding a corporate job. Even if we pretend they just hand out 150k gigs to anyone who is smart and willing to work, which they don't.

Most of the time I hear corporate types in Vegas for a convention talking to each other, I want to shoot myself on their behalf.

I will say, being 100% a poker pro as a long term plan is bad. You do need to develop other stuff, unless you are elite.

Health insurance really isn’t a big deal as you can get a cheap plan on the exchange. It’s high deductible but you just don’t want something to break you

But what often isn’t brought up is social security which you will either not get or will be very small if you are a pro poker with a bunch of zeros for wages

Could it be that you surround yourself with the wrong kind of poker players?
Basically all the regs i know (and the few i follow here on blogs) are the exact opposite.
They practice quite the active, healthy and social life.
Even CFP programs have stuff about good sleep, diets, fitness, yoga, meditation (i.e. all kinds of mental health)

Yes, you surround yourself with the wrong people if most of the poker players you know are indeed miserable. And i think some posters are definitely off, but i doubt most posters have severe personality disorders nor that you can diagnose them through your screen.
Fwiw, you claim most poker players are depressed people without good friends but it seems to hold true mostly for yourself.

Health insurance is a big myth working for someone - not only do they charge you monthly for it right out of your paycheck, they also pay a lower salary to offset the difference.

These are all personal decisions - have nothing to do with poker. While I don't advocate poker as a career, there is something to be said of being able to wake up when you want, work when you want, and travel wherever you want. I would easily take a 100k a year poker income vs 100-150k working a corporate grind. Ultimately the main goal in life for most of us is make the most amount of money in the least amount of time, and working for someone is rarely the right answer.

Mil/year and have 100K hobby in poker.