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Old 06-12-2021, 02:53 PM   #151
SimpleRick
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Re: WPT 500 Event #24 Winner Disqualified -- Help Me

Gazzy's a good guy and he's already cited an instance of a poker site incorrectly seizing a friend's funds for bogus reasons so he's more likely to be wary of a poker site seizing someone's funds.
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Old 06-12-2021, 03:38 PM   #152
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Re: WPT 500 Event #24 Winner Disqualified -- Help Me

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Originally Posted by ImStoic View Post
I find it funny that you're acting all innocent. I know people in the department that flagged you and they have proof that you had help during this game. You were either account sharing (Getting someone to play for you and splitting profits), or you had someone in the room telling you what to do. When you take PartyPoker to court, they will show evidence, and you will have to pay thousands when they win the case and you have to cover their legal fees. Just drop the sharade.
If Party Poker game integrity team are happy to share details of a current (potentially legal) issue with you, I'm even more concerned with Party Poker. I imagine it would be a sackable offence for any of them to share any details with you.
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Old 06-13-2021, 08:35 AM   #153
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Re: WPT 500 Event #24 Winner Disqualified -- Help Me

might as well lock this one up, OP learned a costly lesson and it's a happy ending for everyone except gazzy
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Old 06-13-2021, 09:51 AM   #154
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Re: WPT 500 Event #24 Winner Disqualified -- Help Me

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Originally Posted by +rep_lol View Post
might as well lock this one up, OP learned a costly lesson and it's a happy ending for everyone except gazzy
Thanks for wrapping up the thread! You really summed everything up so well. Mods do we lock it now that rep_lol has spoken?
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Old 06-13-2021, 11:09 AM   #155
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Re: WPT 500 Event #24 Winner Disqualified -- Help Me

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Originally Posted by +rep_lol View Post
might as well lock this one up, OP learned a costly lesson and it's a happy ending for everyone except gazzy
Once again, can you show me anywhere in this thread where I said he was definitely innocent?

Can ya? Can ya? Didn't think so.
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Old 06-13-2021, 11:25 AM   #156
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Re: WPT 500 Event #24 Winner Disqualified -- Help Me

Whether the guy broke the rules or not, it would be nice if they took these types of things on a case by case basis. People make mistakes, two young friends playing on the same account not even knowing it's wrong. Every infraction shouldn't result in a permanent confiscation of funds and bans. Especially when you get into such big dollar amounts, a bit more thought should be put into it if their intent with "cheating" was actually malicious or an honest mistake.
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Old 06-13-2021, 12:47 PM   #157
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Re: WPT 500 Event #24 Winner Disqualified -- Help Me

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Originally Posted by snowie963 View Post
Whether the guy broke the rules or not, it would be nice if they took these types of things on a case by case basis. People make mistakes, two young friends playing on the same account not even knowing it's wrong. Every infraction shouldn't result in a permanent confiscation of funds and bans. Especially when you get into such big dollar amounts, a bit more thought should be put into it if their intent with "cheating" was actually malicious or an honest mistake.
Agreed, and I think they need to chime in with exactly what help they think he had. I donít think that would necessarily divulge how they do their investigations.

The supposed friend of an investigator did not inspire confidence. There is no one man to a hand rule online, or at least I didnít think there was
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Old 06-13-2021, 02:12 PM   #158
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Re: WPT 500 Event #24 Winner Disqualified -- Help Me

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Originally Posted by SmallBallCall View Post
If Party Poker game integrity team are happy to share details of a current (potentially legal) issue with you, I'm even more concerned with Party Poker. I imagine it would be a sackable offence for any of them to share any details with you.
When they disqualify the winner of only online WPT, it is obviously going to wind up being discussed online. It might be better if Party made a statement indicating the grounds for disqualification, but not their evidence.
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Old 06-13-2021, 02:37 PM   #159
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Re: WPT 500 Event #24 Winner Disqualified -- Help Me

I thought 'ghosting; ' (is that the term?) when someone sits next to you while you play, while frowned upon, was not actually 'illegal' in poker.

For example if my brother sat next to me and said "id fold here" or "this is an all in for me" - but ultimately im the one with the mouse, im the one making all the decisions.

However I dont know what the rules are on say Viktor Blom being next to me and saying "id 3 bet here" so i 3 bet or "id shove here" so I shove or "this is a fold" so i fold.. But ultimately isnt that still just ghosting?

either way.. OP is clearly guilty imo. They wouldnt distribute the funds and seize 160k otherwise. And he conveniently says nothing about the poker player he lives with. While i dont want to falsely accuse someone LOL im putting it at least 99% that OP is guilty here
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Old 06-13-2021, 02:40 PM   #160
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Re: WPT 500 Event #24 Winner Disqualified -- Help Me

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Originally Posted by garbagetime View Post
I don't know whether OP is guilty and nor does anyone else in this thread. Having blind faith in poker sites is beyond ******ed. As has been proven to be the case countless times.

If PartyPoker wants to ban people without proper explanation, that's their right. But it makes me less likely to play there. I don't like playing on sites that are in the habit of banning players and giving them no recourse.
Well you go and play on GG poker then who DO have a shady history. Or how about 1 of these app,s in an off shore country LOL

Party and Stars imo are now the only 2 safe sites to play on. They, unlike GG, have already given the funds to all the other players. They literally have no reason to steal funds.

And Party will never say why, I imagine it would be a legal issue and a security issue. But i actually think having a site with strong security measures, that looks out for its players, can only be a good thing
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Old 06-13-2021, 03:11 PM   #161
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Re: WPT 500 Event #24 Winner Disqualified -- Help Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by super_dave31 View Post
I thought 'ghosting; ' (is that the term?) when someone sits next to you while you play, while frowned upon, was not actually 'illegal' in poker.

For example if my brother sat next to me and said "id fold here" or "this is an all in for me" - but ultimately im the one with the mouse, im the one making all the decisions.

However I dont know what the rules are on say Viktor Blom being next to me and saying "id 3 bet here" so i 3 bet or "id shove here" so I shove or "this is a fold" so i fold.. But ultimately isnt that still just ghosting?

either way.. OP is clearly guilty imo. They wouldnt distribute the funds and seize 160k otherwise. And he conveniently says nothing about the poker player he lives with. While i dont want to falsely accuse someone LOL im putting it at least 99% that OP is guilty here
This is silly, whether itís your brother or Blom sitting next to you itís the same exact thing

I think we also need to define guilty. Weíve been skating around this for awhile and no one has clarified. According to PP, is there a one man to a hand rule? If it depends, what does it depend on?

I was under the impression that if the account holder was hitting the buttons everything was on the table. If thatís not the case, would be helpful to know what crosses the line
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Old 06-14-2021, 10:51 AM   #162
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Re: WPT 500 Event #24 Winner Disqualified -- Help Me

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Originally Posted by super_dave31 View Post
Party and Stars imo are now the only 2 safe sites to play on. They, unlike GG, have already given the funds to all the other players. They literally have no reason to steal funds.
I can think of 160,000 reasons.
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Old 06-14-2021, 11:19 AM   #163
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Re: WPT 500 Event #24 Winner Disqualified -- Help Me

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Originally Posted by Pyrochaos View Post
I can think of 160,000 reasons.
No, they gave that money back to the players in the tournament. They did, however, keep the 16K he won in roulette.

Anyhow, can someone answer this question, is it against the TOS for OP to be sharing his screen and getting "help" from an outside party? I've watched poker training videos where this went on and I always assumed it was fine

There is no one man to a hand rule, only one man to an account. At least that's my interpretation.

Last edited by ScotchOnDaRocks; 06-14-2021 at 11:25 AM.
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Old 06-14-2021, 01:43 PM   #164
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Re: WPT 500 Event #24 Winner Disqualified -- Help Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotchOnDaRocks View Post
No, they gave that money back to the players in the tournament. They did, however, keep the 16K he won in roulette.

Anyhow, can someone answer this question, is it against the TOS for OP to be sharing his screen and getting "help" from an outside party? I've watched poker training videos where this went on and I always assumed it was fine

There is no one man to a hand rule, only one man to an account. At least that's my interpretation.
I would assume this falls under RTA and would be against their rules.
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Old 06-14-2021, 02:22 PM   #165
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Re: WPT 500 Event #24 Winner Disqualified -- Help Me

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Originally Posted by Franchise5 View Post
I would assume this falls under RTA and would be against their rules.
To me RTA means software, and as I mentioned I've seen this done numerous times in training videos. Would like to get confirmation on something like this. I'm not a tech guy, in fact I know next to nothing but I think there's some potential for false positives here.

This guy has been labeled a cheater and perhaps he is, but it doesn't seem like there's a consensus on what the rules actually are. I've shared my screen with friends sometimes, but just for learning and entertainment purposes. I thought that was part of the accepted deal with playing online.

Just seems chitty and dangerous that it all happened so fast, what's the immediate rush in sending out the 160K to other players? Maybe there can be a third party set up so some type of review can happen which would keep details of the investigation private.
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Old 06-14-2021, 02:51 PM   #166
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Re: WPT 500 Event #24 Winner Disqualified -- Help Me

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Originally Posted by ScotchOnDaRocks View Post
To me RTA means software, and as I mentioned I've seen this done numerous times in training videos. Would like to get confirmation on something like this. I'm not a tech guy, in fact I know next to nothing but I think there's some potential for false positives here.

This guy has been labeled a cheater and perhaps he is, but it doesn't seem like there's a consensus on what the rules actually are. I've shared my screen with friends sometimes, but just for learning and entertainment purposes. I thought that was part of the accepted deal with playing online.

Just seems chitty and dangerous that it all happened so fast, what's the immediate rush in sending out the 160K to other players? Maybe there can be a third party set up so some type of review can happen which would keep details of the investigation private.
RTA stands for real time assistance and not just computer software. Someone telling you what to do is real time assistance.
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Old 06-14-2021, 03:10 PM   #167
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Re: WPT 500 Event #24 Winner Disqualified -- Help Me

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Originally Posted by Franchise5 View Post
RTA stands for real time assistance and not just computer software. Someone telling you what to do is real time assistance.
Yes I know what it stands for but again I always thought that there was not a one man to a hand rule. Iím not the only person in this thread to believe that.
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Old 06-14-2021, 04:07 PM   #168
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Re: WPT 500 Event #24 Winner Disqualified -- Help Me

https://www.pokerstars.com/en/blog/2...ee-031023.html

"Lee: Exactly. And the key question here is: "How many poker hands are involved?" If three people are discussing *one* poker hand, then we permit it. "
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Old 06-14-2021, 05:59 PM   #169
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Re: WPT 500 Event #24 Winner Disqualified -- Help Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerPlayingGamble View Post
https://www.pokerstars.com/en/blog/2...ee-031023.html

"Lee: Exactly. And the key question here is: "How many poker hands are involved?" If three people are discussing *one* poker hand, then we permit it. "
Thanks and I remember reading that interview many years ago

So Iím just wondering though if things have changed and if so is it when you allow someone not in your location to view your screen
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Old 06-14-2021, 07:32 PM   #170
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Re: WPT 500 Event #24 Winner Disqualified -- Help Me

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Originally Posted by SmallBallCall View Post
If Party Poker game integrity team are happy to share details of a current (potentially legal) issue with you, I'm even more concerned with Party Poker. I imagine it would be a sackable offence for any of them to share any details with you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deuceblocker View Post
When they disqualify the winner of only online WPT, it is obviously going to wind up being discussed online. It might be better if Party made a statement indicating the grounds for disqualification, but not their evidence.
Agreed, that a player got DQ'd is certainly worthy of online discussion. No one disputes that part. However, that's not what piqued my or SmallBallCall's interest.

Based on everything I've seen in the thread, PartyPoker did not reveal the details to anyone – including (allegedly) the OP. Then user "ImStoic" comes along, claiming the following:

Quote:
I know people in the department that flagged you and they have proof that you had help during this game.
Is ImStoic part of that team and/or a Party employee who has seen first-hand the proof of wrongdoing? If so, then he didn't reveal anything more than what's already public in that statement. Alternatively, is he friends/acquaintances of a member of the PP investigative team, but not an actual PP employee? This is where SBC takes issue, as it would speak to the site's overall institutional control.

Of course, it's also quite possible that ImStoic is just full of ****. Something something Occam's Razor, etc.
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Old 06-15-2021, 09:15 AM   #171
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Re: WPT 500 Event #24 Winner Disqualified -- Help Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerPlayingGamble View Post
https://www.pokerstars.com/en/blog/2...ee-031023.html

"Lee: Exactly. And the key question here is: "How many poker hands are involved?" If three people are discussing *one* poker hand, then we permit it. "
This post about PS was made by Josem in Dec 2018:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josem View Post
... b) Ghosting has never been permitted by PokerStars. Some confusion arose many years ago when Lee Jones (I think it was while he was at Cake Poker? I do not recall exactly, but it was sometime between 2005 and 2010) published an article about "one player to a hand". Some players mistakenly understood that article as a comment that there was no such prohibition at PokerStars.

Disclaimer: I formerly worked in PokerStars' Game Security Team where I helped to create the current set of game rules.
And, from https://www.pokernews.com/news/2019/...oker-34900.htm, about Rob Young in 2019:

'Rob Yong has set his sights on eradicating cheating in poker by having his casino and partypoker become the founding members of the FairPlay initiative.

The owner of Dusk Till Dawn casino in the United Kingdom and a key partner of GVC Holdings, owners of the partypoker brand, revealed his vision for FairPlay to Poker Industry Pro ($).

Yong is quoted as saying, “I founded FairPlay to encourage online poker sites, live poker tours, and casino card rooms to collaborate by sharing information on customers that they have caught cheating. For example, using bots, collusion, multi-accounting, or ghosting.”'

Last edited by Mike Haven; 06-15-2021 at 09:24 AM.
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Old 06-15-2021, 03:56 PM   #172
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Re: WPT 500 Event #24 Winner Disqualified -- Help Me

I would love to know what really happened here. Safe to say that nobody looks good in this.
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Old 06-15-2021, 10:46 PM   #173
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Re: WPT 500 Event #24 Winner Disqualified -- Help Me

If a player screen shares their computer while playing poker, certainly that would violate ToS right?

I thought the only exception to one player per hand was having a live friend (or coach) literally standing over your shoulder in the room with you. This seemed to me to be allowed since it is basically unenforceable otherwise.

If anyone is sharing a screen over the internets, you are risking a big score in my opinion.
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Old 06-16-2021, 10:32 AM   #174
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Re: WPT 500 Event #24 Winner Disqualified -- Help Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert_utk View Post
I thought the only exception to one player per hand was having a live friend (or coach) literally standing over your shoulder in the room with you. This seemed to me to be allowed since it is basically unenforceable otherwise.
Unenforceable as long as no one talks about it? Yes. "Allowed?" No.
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Old 06-16-2021, 06:22 PM   #175
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Re: WPT 500 Event #24 Winner Disqualified -- Help Me

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Originally Posted by Adjusted View Post
Looks bad for the OP.

1. He didn't answer multiple people asking the same pertinent questions. (To those saying he doesn't need to answer, HE is the one who took it to an internet forum; crying like a baby and not answering any questions makes him look guilty.)

2. It is too late to shut up and lawyer up. As soon as he went on the forum he lost his ability to settle amicably with Party so going silent on the forum doesn't help him now.

So he needs to get back in here and answer the questions that remain unanswered.
Not sure where you got your law degree, but you may want to demand a refund.
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