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Old 09-09-2020, 12:45 AM   #76
noon
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re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

I will not be surprised if the WSOP goes online, permanently.

A stray live event here and there, but the bulk of it online.
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Old 09-09-2020, 01:20 AM   #77
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re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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I will not be surprised if the WSOP goes online, permanently.

A stray live event here and there, but the bulk of it online.
I would not mind this, but would like to have a few live events tied in with the satellites being online. The biggest issue would be that it is not federally regulated in the US so it would disheartening to not to be able to play it as a US citizen. I would love to have a true WSOP online with pre-UIGEA poker rooms. Anyone from any country having the ability to play would be awesome.

It also has to be financially better for the poker room to host it online as they are still getting the entry fees but have a much lower costs since they do not have to pay dealers, venues and such.
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Old 09-09-2020, 01:56 AM   #78
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re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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Originally Posted by MonkeyPox View Post
I would not mind this, but would like to have a few live events tied in with the satellites being online. The biggest issue would be that it is not federally regulated in the US so it would disheartening to not to be able to play it as a US citizen. I would love to have a true WSOP online with pre-UIGEA poker rooms. Anyone from any country having the ability to play would be awesome.

It also has to be financially better for the poker room to host it online as they are still getting the entry fees but have a much lower costs since they do not have to pay dealers, venues and such.
They would miss out on the sponsorship money tho. And the slim jim hand of the hour or whatever. Plus the money the casinos make from extra traffic coming in to the casinos.

I guess its more like slim jim pays espn and espn pays the wsop, but same idea.

They would still make money on advertising but i doubt it would be as much as they make with it on espn.
I have a feeling the wsop makes quite a bit more than some people think. Ceasars, or harrahs at the time or whatever their name was, bought Binions just to have the wsop from what ive read in the poker history type books. That could be wrong but i think thats what ive read.

I personally definitely want the wsop to remain live in Vegas, but I also want 2008 style online poker back. If someone could get that fixed up for me I would appreciate it. Couldn't be too hard. Surely it wouldnt take a ten year battle just to get six states on board. Thanks
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Old 09-09-2020, 05:27 AM   #79
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re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

Literally zero chance live WSOP goes away.

At best, we see an annual (minimum) WSOP Online to go along with the live product.
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Old 09-09-2020, 05:45 AM   #80
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re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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I will not be surprised if the WSOP goes online, permanently.

A stray live event here and there, but the bulk of it online.
Why?
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Old 09-09-2020, 08:10 AM   #81
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re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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Why?
More or similar profit online, way less headaches for Caesars.
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Old 09-09-2020, 08:45 AM   #82
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re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

I can't believe people just accepted there was no mixed games in this year's WSOP.
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Old 09-09-2020, 09:05 AM   #83
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re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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I can't believe people just accepted there was no mixed games in this year's WSOP.
Poker players are Sheep.

Is there another "sport" where the players pay to be on TV, and receive no piece of the revenue in return?
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Old 09-09-2020, 09:59 AM   #84
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re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

Yes, Golf and Tennis tournaments are all freerolls with huge prize money.
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Old 09-09-2020, 10:08 AM   #85
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re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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Wouldnt bet on number of events or on the start time but id bet that the main event begins no later than july.
For slightly better odds I’d be willing to lower the number of events to as low as 50 live (not online) tournaments at the Rio or a location within a mile of the Las Vegas Strip.

But if we want to stretch “WSOP running on time” to “there’s a main event starting in July” we need to alter the odds significantly or add a stipulation like 6+ entrants (last time that didn’t happen was 2005).

For what I would consider “WSOP running on time”, planning and significant financial commitment needs to be in place in early 2021. Just a main event for 4K players or less and maybe a couple side events, that’s something you could put together in 3 months or less.

The last couple of years, right before Christmas the WSOP announced key dates for the upcoming series. Are you interested in a bet about that not happening this year?
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Old 09-09-2020, 11:00 AM   #86
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re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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Yes, Golf and Tennis tournaments are all freerolls with huge prize money.
Everybody on television is on a freeroll but poker players.

Poker is the only contest I can think of where the contestants pay to be on television, receiving (nearly) nothing in return.

Even the nerd spelling bee kids are competing for millions in prizes.

The bean bag tossers (cornhole) don't pay to be on television, compete for money and prizes, and they might be in worse shape than the poker players.
They ain't dumb enough, or attention starved enough (Hellmuth, Negreanu, Esfandiari just to name a few) to pay to be on television.

Yup, Poker players are Sheep.
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Old 09-09-2020, 12:26 PM   #87
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re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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Originally Posted by noon View Post
I will not be surprised if the WSOP goes online, permanently.

A stray live event here and there, but the bulk of it online.
0%
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Old 09-09-2020, 12:53 PM   #88
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re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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Originally Posted by noon View Post
Everybody on television is on a freeroll but poker players.

Poker is the only contest I can think of where the contestants pay to be on television, receiving (nearly) nothing in return.

Even the nerd spelling bee kids are competing for millions in prizes.

The bean bag tossers (cornhole) don't pay to be on television, compete for money and prizes, and they might be in worse shape than the poker players.
They ain't dumb enough, or attention starved enough (Hellmuth, Negreanu, Esfandiari just to name a few) to pay to be on television.

Yup, Poker players are Sheep.
pay to be on television? wtf
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Old 09-09-2020, 01:22 PM   #89
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re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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Originally Posted by noon View Post
Poker is the only contest I can think of where the contestants pay to be on television, receiving (nearly) nothing in return.
Runners pay to enter NYC, Boston, etc. marathons and whoa, it's televised.

Also, your loose description of "pay to be on television" doesn't hold water. The money players "pay" goes to the prize pool, aside from normal rake fees which don't vary based on whether a particular event is televised or not. There's no special carveout given to TV producers, etc. from the prize pool.
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Old 09-09-2020, 01:30 PM   #90
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re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

Sports paying to be on television is hardly news. A big name example, the XFL didn't get any money from their TV deal with FOX/ESPN.
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Old 09-09-2020, 01:38 PM   #91
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re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

10k event live wsop.... 70% regs
10k event online wsop... 98% regs

No chance wsop would go perma online, would also be terrible for poker
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Old 09-09-2020, 02:11 PM   #92
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re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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Runners pay to enter NYC, Boston, etc. marathons and whoa, it's televised.
99.99% of them are never on TV, and the prize pool for the marathon is in the 10's of millions of dollars, far exceeding the entry fees. Also, there are plenty of ways someone can legally enter the race free.

Quote:
Also, your loose description of "pay to be on television" doesn't hold water. The money players "pay" goes to the prize pool, aside from normal rake fees which don't vary based on whether a particular event is televised or not...
ESPN and Caesars are making 10's of millions of dollars from the "pay to play" poker players. No one but the Cops and First Responders are making money from Marathons.

Also Marathons might be televised locally once and are not endlessly rebroadcast.
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Old 09-09-2020, 02:20 PM   #93
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re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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Sports paying to be on television is hardly news.
A big name example, the XFL didn't get any money from their TV deal with FOX/ESPN.
The XFL football players were paid participants, unlike poker players.


As far as I know, the XFL didn't pay to be on television, they just received very little revenue (if any) from it.
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Old 09-09-2020, 02:46 PM   #94
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re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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Originally Posted by madlex View Post
For slightly better odds I’d be willing to lower the number of events to as low as 50 live (not online) tournaments at the Rio or a location within a mile of the Las Vegas Strip.

But if we want to stretch “WSOP running on time” to “there’s a main event starting in July” we need to alter the odds significantly or add a stipulation like 6+ entrants (last time that didn’t happen was 2005).

For what I would consider “WSOP running on time”, planning and significant financial commitment needs to be in place in early 2021. Just a main event for 4K players or less and maybe a couple side events, that’s something you could put together in 3 months or less.

The last couple of years, right before Christmas the WSOP announced key dates for the upcoming series. Are you interested in a bet about that not happening this year?
I'm down to bet if it's watered down to "Will live WSOP run at any point in 2021 in Vegas". I see a few factors outside of Covid that could push around those dates and I don't want my bet nulled because Caesar's decided it's better to start WSOP in August/September instead of running May-July. I was admittedly a bit flippant with my words but my overarching point was supposed to be I feel strongly WSOP 2021 will take place live in Vegas at some point in 2021, and would be willing to bet on it.
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Old 09-09-2020, 03:28 PM   #95
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re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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Originally Posted by noon View Post
99.99% of them are never on TV, and the prize pool for the marathon is in the 10's of millions of dollars, far exceeding the entry fees. Also, there are plenty of ways someone can legally enter the race free.

ESPN and Caesars are making 10's of millions of dollars from the "pay to play" poker players. No one but the Cops and First Responders are making money from Marathons.
Race directors make a decent amount of money.

2020 was the first time all participants in the US Olympic trials at least got free airfare and accommodation. Before that, you had to pay all of that yourself if you wanted to have the chance to represent your country in the marathon.

But we might want to stop that derail now, shame on me for participating.

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Originally Posted by Chazley View Post
I'm down to bet if it's watered down to "Will live WSOP run at any point in 2021 in Vegas". I see a few factors outside of Covid that could push around those dates and I don't want my bet nulled because Caesar's decided it's better to start WSOP in August/September instead of running May-July. I was admittedly a bit flippant with my words but my overarching point was supposed to be I feel strongly WSOP 2021 will take place live in Vegas at some point in 2021, and would be willing to bet on it.
OK, I understand.

I'm only interested in a bet that has the start date they used the last couple of years (or close to it) and comparable number of events to last year. I wouldn't bet on not having some form of WSOP at all, at least not without getting some decent odds in my favor. Personally I feel like the odds of having a WSOP comparable to 2019 are slim but the odds of having one at all, potentially later in the year are pretty decent.
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Old 09-09-2020, 03:38 PM   #96
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re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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Originally Posted by noon View Post
Poker players are Sheep.

Is there another "sport" where the players pay to be on TV, and receive no piece of the revenue in return?
It's economics - supply and demand. There is no shortage of poker players willing to buy-in to tournaments for the chance to win only the prize money. So what if the top 100 poker players refused to play if they didn't get a piece of the revenue? There are 10,000 more eager to take their place. And the viewing public really doesn't care, because, unlike in other sports, the skill difference of the players:

(1) Isn't that overwhelming between say, the top player in the world and the 5,000th best player in the world;

(2) Isn't overwhelmingly determinant on who wins, because of the degree of variance in the game; and

(3) Has little impact on the excitement and drama in any particular hand or any particular tournament.
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Old 09-09-2020, 04:03 PM   #97
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re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

2021 WSOP runs exactly as planned like every other year before Covid-19. You're talking about another 8-9 months, come on.

Last edited by madlex; 09-09-2020 at 05:39 PM. Reason: Deleted derogatory term
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Old 09-09-2020, 04:15 PM   #98
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re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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Originally Posted by davewebb View Post
It's economics - supply and demand. There is no shortage of poker players willing to buy-in to tournaments for the chance to win only the prize money.
Sad but true. This is in respect to the WSOP Main Event.


Quote:
So what if the top 100 poker players refused to play if they didn't get a piece of the revenue? ... the viewing public really doesn't care
Back in the day (pre Black Friday) I think the viewing public would care.

Back in the day, if the 'famous' poker players (Hellmuth, Negreanu, Matusow, Ferguson, Chan, Brunson and so on) organized, they'd be getting a share of the ESPN money.

Phil Hellmuth is King of the Sheep, with Daniel Negreanu a close 2nd. I can understand how those two attention whores never spoke up. But with Doyle Brunson, it always disappointed me Doyle Brunson never had the courage to speak up, and try to get a piece of the TV money.
Sheep
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Old 09-09-2020, 04:20 PM   #99
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re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

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Originally Posted by prizminferno View Post
2021 WSOP runs exactly as planned like every other year before Covid-19. You're talking about another 8-9 months, come on.
No chance!

Last edited by madlex; 09-09-2020 at 05:39 PM. Reason: fixed quote
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Old 09-09-2020, 09:17 PM   #100
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re: Thoughts about 2021 WSOP (tentatively scheduled 09/30 - 11/23)

seems optimist to think it will run exactly like the years before covid, we're not really out of the woods yet, 2022 should feel normal
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