An extra 63% discount?

Can't think who offers that unless it is the wholesale/retail price of illegal drugs but then the ones doing the end retail carry the risk and most of the cost there so the cost difference is like many wholesale vs retail differentials, retail has costs.

Walmart might negotiate 10% or 20% and so be able to undercut the mom and pop store, in part by taking lower cost bulk deliveries and splitting them in house, but that is not differentiated prices to essentially retail customers and it is not 67%

Richas you're arguing 1 point and brushing off the second point that is actually what people are discussing in this thread.

You're saying SNE's shouldn't be getting 70% while a chrome star gets 7% or whatever... hey take a poll, btw I even agree with you,... but it has nothing to do with the discussion in this thread.

The discussion in this thread is are Pokerstars being fair/reasonable even legal by doing a bait and switch like they did to SNE's this year? That is what people are discussing... not what the optimal rb levels should be.

Richas is an absolute goose and his posts are almost single handedly ruining this thread.

Would not surprise me if there was motive behind this

I'm getting sick of every serious thread lately especially regarding stars being ruined by idiots posting nonsense. Usually when the thread topic has **** all impact on them anyway. Ruining any serious conversation and progress.

Yeah, this post is muchhhh better than richas posts... maybe you should nap it out for a while PGH.You seem to do more harm than good. zzzzzz
zzzzz step away for a bit and have yourself a nap. Do us all a favor

I asked a question, I did not argue a position. I don't know what is a fair rakeback system, my bias is same for all but I can be convinced that is wrong.

As for the legal/illegal alleged bait and switch. You are right, I don't buy that argument. I think it was clear there would be big changes to the scheme over a year ago and that the TOS make such changes entirely legal - and whilst not predictable in detail or fact at least well enough explained for poker players to assess the risk of change, to see that risk is possible, and by the 2015 announcement likely.

Now that might be as risk is my job, it might be that what I see as self evident is not self evident to all but I do think SNE grinders are bright enough, probability aware enough, risk aware enough to have read the 2015 announcement as a prerequisite for grinding 2015 and reading the TOS as a prerequisite too. I don't believe that SNE grinders are genuinely shocked or surprised by big cuts for 2016.

I concede I could be wrong but if SNEs are honest with themselves I don't think there are many that see it as a shock, maybe a bad beat but not a surprise. It could be that SNEs are far dimmer than I think they are but I don't think they are lazy, haphazard, unplanning, unthoughtful people. I think they grinded 2015 as 2015 was profitable and they hoped it would help 2016 too (which it does but less so than they might have hoped).

His posts are usually way more informative and relevant than your constant hysterical offensive outbursts.

If Pokerstars thought the way you do then why didn't they announce the changes January 1st? Everyone knew rb was going from 70% down to 30% right? Please don't give the they didn't know how deep the cuts would be argument.... they knew within 5% maximum.

The reality is they wanted max rake from players in 2015. For you to blindly defend a site because it has a TOS as if that by definition makes it legal...
Doesn't it also say somewhere in the TOS that they can close a players account and seize his funds for whatever reason management deems fit?

TOS aren't necessarily legal and for someone who is so entrenched in legislative matters in the UK; you should know this and stop defending a company for being vague when they've "admitted" they could have done more in the communication department.

For goodness sake. I am not defending the changes or Stars I am trying to inject some reality vs rage.

The TOS do play - every single reward scheme that has been changed/cancelled to the detriment of consumers has stood up to legal challenge. When they say they can change it in the TOS that is what they mean, it is not a two year rolling contract.

No firm would invite speculation or undermine their current reward scheme. Sure they could have been more explicit or repeated warnings but doing that and at the same time marketing the scheme to new players is shall we difficult. They did not announce significant 2016 changes on Jan 1st, they did it two months earlier.

I note that you are not actually arguing with my points, just implying I am a shill.

There was no shock. The changes may be right or wrong. They do hurt some people hugely. They might be bad for Stars and even for poker but the changes were flagged up and they are legal. There is also a chance that Stars know what they are doing and the changes help. Personally I think they have not done enough for recs/newbies but we don't yet see what they are going to do next year on that.

Oh poor Amaya, I am really deeply sorry for their difficulties in marketing.
No point in argueing with you anyways. Why would I argue with some random 2p2 poster about these changes.. No point in argueing at all. We can just rage and fight against it or eat their ****.

I suppose it would be difficult to promote a marketing scheme while at the same time admitting they already made the decision not to honor it. Perhaps some sort of fine print footnote?

POKERSTARS: IF YOU DO X IN 2015, WE WILL GIVE YOU Y IN 2016!*

*Please be advised that we will not be giving you Y in 2016. We apologize for any communication blunders.

I think you are wasting your time. They don't want to hear it.

It's far easier to rage at Stars than blame themselves for not doing due diligence in the first place.

you are fast..

Yep, the truth can hurt sometimes.

It hurts? No you are 100% right, I certainly don't want to hear or read the **** you type or say.

No problem. Keep on with the pointless raging at stars.

Hope it makes you feel better.

Not much else I can do besides pointless argueing with random 2p2 posters. So I chose raging, yes it feels better a little bit. Why do even argue here, do you get some personal satisfaction for your ego out of this **** or why do you even care?
Are you Bazoov's personal little bitch maybe or what drives you on, can you explain to me?

Practising lawyers have posted such clauses are unenforceable

FWIW

$4 Million - $4 Million + $4 Million = "$4 Million Injection"

For those who would like to read more about "Interstellar Algebra" and it's real world applications there is an interesting mathematical proof here:

a = b
a2 = ab
a2 - b2 = ab-b2
(a-b)(a+b) = b(a-b)
a+b = b
b+b = b
2b = b
2 = 1

http://www.advancedmathematics.co.uk...anttakeanymore (2015, Mark Wahlberg)

They should keep practising until they're good enough to go pro imo.

I never knew Mark Mark was so good at math.

Hey wait, what?

(a-b)=0 if a=b, and you can't divide by 0 when you try and divide both sides by (a-b) in one of the middle steps.

Perhaps its because as casual poker players with proper jobs we are disgusted with pros behaviour and what they have done to an online game that used to be a lot of fun. All you are seeing is people with a clue how the world actually works combating the nonsense of the deluded parasite pros

**** you too JudgeHoldem, i dont always have the time to post "eloquently" but i like to stick my oar in with the heros around here that do (Richas Wiki borg etc) So whatever. Of course they post more relevant stuff they are more involved in the game than i am

Pro's are only using the environment which is provided to them. Quite stupid to blame the Pro's for using the service or VIP system which is provided by the pokersites to their best usage.
Stars did provide this VIP system with clear intent and we use it. Simple. Blame the one who invented the system not us, thanks.

@bumpnrun The test of ethics and character is not how well we want people we like to be treated, it's how fairly we want people we don't like to be treated.

I like this , thanks for posting

Perhaps they are being treated unfairly. But they are pro poker players ffs. They routinely take large amounts of degens net worth of them using unfair and illegal programs while giving no **** for their personal situation/family. It's like a professional burglar complaining someone stole his water bottle at the gym