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Old 03-24-2019, 11:27 AM   #151
WotRTheChances
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Re: Pokerking Asia frozen accounts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lindyhppr View Post
I joined this company because I believe in its people and its mission. If any of the people involved in Poker King thought this was an attempt to steal funds from players, we wouldn't be here. You may question our practices but never our intent - to provide our players with the softest site in the safest environment possible.

To reiterate, closing this community and confiscating the funds was not a close decision. There is conclusive evidence of the following:

1) The community in question was created specifically for this community head and his stable.

2) The community head was directly involved in collusion along with others in the community/stable.

3) The community head and his partner were staking the members of his community and members of the community were sharing action with the individuals involved in the collusion. We have transfer history, interviews (community members, the union head/agent, and reputable individuals who know the community head), and other data that link each account within the community.

4) There is other information that is not presented here that condemns this community head and its members beyond any reasonable doubt.

Poker King does not taking closing of accounts and seizing of player funds lightly. In cases where evidence is not strong enough (even though we suspect there is a high likelihood of bots for example), we have chosen to release those funds back to the players (but close those accounts). This community is not one of those cases.

We have hired, retained, and consulted with some of the most respected names in the industry to validate our methodology and conclusions. These are individuals we count as friends, confidants, and advisors. The company is here to build something we can be proud of. We will not let the ill-intention of several bad actors stand in the way of what we are trying to achieve.

Ultimately, the battle for public opinion is a difficult one to win and thankfully, one that isn't our primary goal. This has personally been one of the most challenging and stressful times for me. We are trying to do the right thing (and sometimes that isn't the most popular option).
This is simply untrue in my case. I’m not staked by this ‘community head’ and have absolutely nothing to gain by him or any other member of this community winning money on the site. I think it’s pretty outrageous you think you can just make these statements with clearly no knowledge of some members of this community’s relationship with the individual in question.

I know very little about the main issue that happened within my community, but for you to think you have the right to seize £25,000 of my funds and provide no substantial link between myself and those in question is absurd.
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Old 03-24-2019, 01:02 PM   #152
Fatboy54
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Re: Pokerking Asia frozen accounts.

Quote:
I joined this company because I believe in its people and its mission
You may or may not be flouting some countries gambling regulations - I don't know.

But a word of caution... when Pokerstars, Full Tilt et al, decided to go footloose and fancyfree with regulations in the good ol US of A, it ended in the complete destruction of online poker in the States (and it is nowhere near back to where it was 8 years on.)

Just Saying.
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Old 03-24-2019, 03:59 PM   #153
PKAban
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Re: Pokerking Asia frozen accounts.

How many communities are left to process?
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Old 03-24-2019, 08:56 PM   #154
mosquito!
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Re: Pokerking Asia frozen accounts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PKAban View Post
How many communities are left to process?
+1

My accs are still frozen(20k€), but since I didn't do anything wrong have good feeling that everything will be resolved.

Also since I played on Poker master while it was good, and stopped when I couldn't beat colluders anymore I'm ok with this measures to keep the games clean.
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Old 03-24-2019, 11:14 PM   #155
nbcola
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Re: Pokerking Asia frozen accounts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lindyhppr View Post
I joined this company because I believe in its people and its mission. If any of the people involved in Poker King thought this was an attempt to steal funds from players, we wouldn't be here. You may question our practices but never our intent - to provide our players with the softest site in the safest environment possible.

To reiterate, closing this community and confiscating the funds was not a close decision. There is conclusive evidence of the following:

1) The community in question was created specifically for this community head and his stable.

2) The community head was directly involved in collusion along with others in the community/stable.

3) The community head and his partner were staking the members of his community and members of the community were sharing action with the individuals involved in the collusion. We have transfer history, interviews (community members, the union head/agent, and reputable individuals who know the community head), and other data that link each account within the community.

4) There is other information that is not presented here that condemns this community head and its members beyond any reasonable doubt.

Poker King does not taking closing of accounts and seizing of player funds lightly. In cases where evidence is not strong enough (even though we suspect there is a high likelihood of bots for example), we have chosen to release those funds back to the players (but close those accounts). This community is not one of those cases.

We have hired, retained, and consulted with some of the most respected names in the industry to validate our methodology and conclusions. These are individuals we count as friends, confidants, and advisors. The company is here to build something we can be proud of. We will not let the ill-intention of several bad actors stand in the way of what we are trying to achieve.

Ultimately, the battle for public opinion is a difficult one to win and thankfully, one that isn't our primary goal. This has personally been one of the most challenging and stressful times for me. We are trying to do the right thing (and sometimes that isn't the most popular option).
Hi PK staff,

I'm a Chinese player owned one community (143821 - PTK) and my whole community has been frozen for about 19 days since Mar 7th and there is no sign of unfrozen, i emailed the pmduty2018 email but always get the information about 'we'll review hand history and you'll be informed once accounts unfrozen'.

I want to seek your help/support as my community is not very large and most of players are invited by myself to Poker King. I'm sure that most of my players are not bot or even using LDMNQ (software to allow muti apps to run on computer). I don't know why this affect my whole community and it takes so long. I suspect the reason for the whole community to be frozen is that i requested a senior function (VIP community) from my guild staff but actually i didn't use it so much, just to help some of my client to cash-in/out (no more than 3K RMB in total). what make my case worse is that one of my friend opened another community (still functional) but his manage account belongs to my community so that he cannot access to backstage.

Can you kindly check if you can help my case? My email account is 85354707@qq.com I'd appreciate if you can leave me a message or send me an email...

Best wishes,
Wenhao
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Old 03-25-2019, 04:27 AM   #156
nodarpapaya
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Re: Pokerking Asia frozen accounts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lindyhppr View Post
It's pretty lazy and malicious thinking to assume that we haven't done our homework. I don't expect everyone to agree with how we operate but those who do will choose to play on our site. Those who don't can just go play on Poker Master, Red Dragon, or PPP - in fact I suggest you do, then decide for yourself what you prefer.
Well, then I'm sure you won't object to how we "operate" in response. limit your travel especially in Asia because you'll never know if China has an INTERPOL warrant for your ass.
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Old 03-25-2019, 05:14 AM   #157
nodarpapaya
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Re: Pokerking Asia frozen accounts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lindyhppr View Post
We have not decided what to do with the funds but are discussing the topic internally. The primary concern at this point is just to get through all the accounts and complete the investigation. There'll be plenty of time to decide what to do afterwards.
yea they're deciding between hookers and blow. it's a tough choice, guys.
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Old 03-25-2019, 05:34 AM   #158
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Re: Pokerking Asia frozen accounts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lindyhppr View Post
To be very clear, nothing has been decided on at this point. We are in the middle of an investigation - not trying to figure out what we are doing with the funds that have been seized. The priority and focus is to address the players and communities whose money is frozen.

While I agree in principle that the player that was colluded against should get some form of retribution, that discussion will come after the case is closed.
This looks really bad. I was colluded against on Stars by 2 guys in Norway once. Stars seized their funds and refunded me with a letter of explanation all within a week. This is what any reputable poker site would do.

There is only one option. You have to refund the whale with whatever funds you recover from the colluders.

Last edited by Adjusted; 03-25-2019 at 05:46 AM.
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Old 03-25-2019, 05:40 AM   #159
Kelvis
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Re: Pokerking Asia frozen accounts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adjusted View Post
This looks really bad. I was colluded against on Stars by 2 guys in Norway once. Stars seized their funds and refunded me with a letter of explanation all within a week. This what any reputable poker site would do.

There is only one option. You have to refund the whale with whatever funds he lost
Whether the colluders are able to get the money off the site doesn't even matter. If the cheating was so obvious and reason to ban and confiscate remaining funds then you have to reimburse the whale for the full amount.
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Old 03-25-2019, 05:58 AM   #160
nodarpapaya
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Re: Pokerking Asia frozen accounts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adjusted View Post
This looks really bad. I was colluded against on Stars by 2 guys in Norway once. Stars seized their funds and refunded me with a letter of explanation all within a week. This what any reputable poker site would do.

There is only one option. You have to refund the whale with whatever funds you recover from the colluders.
HAHAHAA Do you think a reputable site would massfreeze millions upon millions in innocent players accounts? I got a bridge to sell you.
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Old 03-25-2019, 08:35 AM   #161
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Re: Pokerking Asia frozen accounts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nodarpapaya View Post
HAHAHAA Do you think a reputable site would massfreeze millions upon millions in innocent players accounts? I got a bridge to sell you.
What a bizarre thing to say. I never said that. Why are you quoting my post?
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Old 03-25-2019, 09:23 AM   #162
Lemon93PCTSure
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Re: Pokerking Asia frozen accounts.

well we know none of the sites are fully regulated
and China's a country where laws don't matter much until the government decides they do for YOU on their whim

Just unfreeze the accounts of us honest players and let us play some poker damn you
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Old 03-25-2019, 09:30 AM   #163
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Re: Pokerking Asia frozen accounts.

The whale lost 200K, but some if it was probably to non-colluders who were not frozen/confiscated right?

I think banning accounts who were mildly associated with the cheaters may be overreach, but as we don't know where the line is drawn, it is tough to say.

Is Pokerking going to allow anyone from the stables who were frozen/confiscated to play on their site again?
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Old 03-25-2019, 09:54 AM   #164
TimStone
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Re: Pokerking Asia frozen accounts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nodarpapaya View Post
yea they're deciding between hookers and blow. it's a tough choice, guys.
for all i care they can use everything they confiscate on hookers and blow as long as they manage to provide a fair and safe environment for players.

in fact i would like they using the money for themselves because it might give them additional incentive to bust colluders/botters going forward.

it's the first (unregulated) site who proactively does something against all that cancer which completely destroyed most of the other apps PM included und people ***** and moan. if you don't like what they do the guy already suggested there is a place at PM or whereever where your funds are guaranteed by a nice agent and you can run your bots or play 6 accounts vs one with your mates...

so far everything the guy said seems reasonable so the guys who are affected while playing fair and square i'm quite sure you might be able to sort things out once the dust has settled abit.

for the guys who don't want to play on an unregulated site which poses additional risk nobody forces you to deposit money on this site. it's your own decision and if you have a somewhat reliable agent he will make you aware of the substancially higher risk when playing on unregulated realmoney sites.

anybody reasonable would be happy that there are alot more options now where players can play in soft fields compared to the almost monopoly which stars was riding a couple of years back...
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Old 03-25-2019, 10:09 AM   #165
meale
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Re: Pokerking Asia frozen accounts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimStone View Post
for all i care they can use everything they confiscate on hookers and blow as long as they manage to provide a fair and safe environment for players.

in fact i would like they using the money for themselves because it might give them additional incentive to bust colluders/botters going forward.

it's the first (unregulated) site who proactively does something against all that cancer which completely destroyed most of the other apps PM included und people ***** and moan. if you don't like what they do the guy already suggested there is a place at PM or whereever where your funds are guaranteed by a nice agent and you can run your bots or play 6 accounts vs one with your mates...

so far everything the guy said seems reasonable so the guys who are affected while playing fair and square i'm quite sure you might be able to sort things out once the dust has settled abit.

for the guys who don't want to play on an unregulated site which poses additional risk nobody forces you to deposit money on this site. it's your own decision and if you have a somewhat reliable agent he will make you aware of the substancially higher risk when playing on unregulated realmoney sites.

anybody reasonable would be happy that there are alot more options now where players can play in soft fields compared to the almost monopoly which stars was riding a couple of years back...
Don't get me wrong, I think it's bloody brilliant that they're actively going after cheaters. The centralised system that incentivises PK to ban and sieze funds from cheaters is what will inevitably make this a great and safe site to play on.

But ffs there's a way you go about doing this. You simply can not ban people who have done nothing wrong - and the way it's looking, many of these players will not get their money back.
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Old 03-25-2019, 02:20 PM   #166
Fatboy54
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Re: Pokerking Asia frozen accounts.

Quote:
The centralised system that incentivises PK to ban and sieze funds from cheaters is what will inevitably make this a great and safe site to play on.
assuming of course that the proliferation of self-regulating sites does not incentivise governments to step in and ban the 'kin lot.

w/e I've no dog in this fight and I've had my tenpenneth, so FB out.
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Old 03-25-2019, 05:05 PM   #167
WateryBoil
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Re: Pokerking Asia frozen accounts.

it always blows my mind that they cant process and detect things without doing something so drastic as a mass freezing.

player sitting 99% of the time with other cheaters? bam instantly banned. like on what planet would that ever be the case with a legit player? super obvious hand histories of sketchy hands? stats stats stats?

pokerstars back in ****ing 2008 could know within a few HANDS, from say, a sketchy sit and go, if you were cheating or not.

they used to freeze you and then email questions like "how do you know X player and why did you play X hand this way against him". dunno if they still do this but it seemed super effective!

like how does that not work? seems easy enough a child could process that information.

The ONLY possible thing i could think of is that the gameplay from cheating on PokerKing was SO infected by 25%+ of the player pool cheating it was better to send the patient(pokerking app) into a medically induced coma to stop it from spreading.

I guess its effective if theres literally hundreds of chinese cheaters actively "playing" in their App, but they will just get replaced with more nameless faceless chinese cheaters even if they DO cut this cancer out.

Last edited by WateryBoil; 03-25-2019 at 05:12 PM.
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Old 03-25-2019, 09:11 PM   #168
nbcola
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Re: Pokerking Asia frozen accounts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nbcola View Post
Hi PK staff,

I'm a Chinese player owned one community (143821 - PTK) and my whole community has been frozen for about 19 days since Mar 7th and there is no sign of unfrozen, i emailed the pmduty2018 email but always get the information about 'we'll review hand history and you'll be informed once accounts unfrozen'.

Best wishes,
Wenhao
Just update on my case, my whole community has been unfrozen and i'm checking with my close clients and it seems all of their accounts are unfrozen. the review process is taking very long (from Mar 7 to Mar 25) but i think it is the biggest movement PK done so far. I'll continue to promote this Apps and intend to promote to overseas players (as there is a new overseas version available).

If anyone is interested in playing on this site or other Chinese Apps, please let me know via email *spam removed*

I've been playing on various online poker apps such as pokerstars, allnew poker (GG network) to Chinese apps (PK, Poker Master, Super Poker, Legend Poker, Fish Poker, Red Dragon Poker etc.) and can help with my experiences.

Last edited by Bobo Fett; 03-26-2019 at 05:06 AM. Reason: Sigh.
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Old 03-25-2019, 11:38 PM   #169
MTTwannabe
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Re: Pokerking Asia frozen accounts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WateryBoil View Post
The ONLY possible thing i could think of is that the gameplay from cheating on PokerKing was SO infected by 25%+ of the player pool cheating it was better to send the patient(pokerking app) into a medically induced coma to stop it from spreading.
I think that very well could be the case. I was one of the first guys playing on PK asia with my agent and altho I played only 5/10/20 stakes I still noticed over a period of like 4-5 months how much tougher games have become. I blamed it on "new, strong regs joining", smelled fishy af tho. I think there is likely just a too big % of offenders and self-induced coma was necessary if they
wanna continue business.
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Old 03-26-2019, 04:20 AM   #170
Kojika
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Re: Pokerking Asia frozen accounts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nbcola View Post
Just update on my case, my whole community has been unfrozen and i'm checking with my close clients and it seems all of their accounts are unfrozen. the review process is taking very long (from Mar 7 to Mar 25) but i think it is the biggest movement PK done so far. I'll continue to promote this Apps and intend to promote to overseas players (as there is a new overseas version available).

If anyone is interested in playing on this site or other Chinese Apps, please let me know via email *spam removed*

I've been playing on various online poker apps such as pokerstars, allnew poker (GG network) to Chinese apps (PK, Poker Master, Super Poker, Legend Poker, Fish Poker, Red Dragon Poker etc.) and can help with my experiences.

This is great news. I have played two days on the site and got frozen after winning 3 buy ins... needless to say I thought it was just a scam, but reading such post gives me hope. Obviously my play was 100% fair and I didn’t even know HUD, tableninja like,... were available.
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Old 03-26-2019, 06:22 AM   #171
lindyhppr
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Re: Pokerking Asia frozen accounts.

Just to give everyone an update:

1) We have processed around 25 or so communities now. The communities heads have been notified and have been asked to return the money to the players (if they are being released). For accounts being shut down (e.g. for botting or collusion), accounts will have a notification informing the player of the outcome.

2) There will be a handful accounts (usually between 0-3 accounts in each community) that need additional investigation within some of these communities. These accounts are ones that either have inconclusive evidence or are potential holding accounts for the bot rings.

3) There will be an opportunity to appeal and a process we're establishing now for bot accounts (for collusion there is a standard process in place).

4) We are likely a couple days away from completing the rest of the communities (approximately 10 remain). We appreciate the patience from the community as we get through this difficult time.
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Old 03-26-2019, 06:33 AM   #172
lindyhppr
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Re: Pokerking Asia frozen accounts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon93PCTSure View Post
well we know none of the sites are fully regulated
and China's a country where laws don't matter much until the government decides they do for YOU on their whim

Just unfreeze the accounts of us honest players and let us play some poker damn you
Assuming you're not a bot, we're going to refund you your money (if we haven't already). You will have to find a new community and create a new account as all the communities within the VIP channel (all accounts that are frozen) will be closed permanently.
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Old 03-26-2019, 06:45 AM   #173
lindyhppr
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Re: Pokerking Asia frozen accounts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by falldown View Post
The whale lost 200K, but some if it was probably to non-colluders who were not frozen/confiscated right?

I think banning accounts who were mildly associated with the cheaters may be overreach, but as we don't know where the line is drawn, it is tough to say.

Is Pokerking going to allow anyone from the stables who were frozen/confiscated to play on their site again?
No. Players who have been banned will not be allowed to ever play on the site again. Also, to be upfront, if a player who is banned is ever found to play on the site again, their account will be closed and funds will be confiscated (again).
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Old 03-26-2019, 09:47 AM   #174
Kojika
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Re: Pokerking Asia frozen accounts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lindyhppr View Post
Just to give everyone an update:

1) We have processed around 25 or so communities now. The communities heads have been notified and have been asked to return the money to the players (if they are being released). For accounts being shut down (e.g. for botting or collusion), accounts will have a notification informing the player of the outcome.

2) There will be a handful accounts (usually between 0-3 accounts in each community) that need additional investigation within some of these communities. These accounts are ones that either have inconclusive evidence or are potential holding accounts for the bot rings.

3) There will be an opportunity to appeal and a process we're establishing now for bot accounts (for collusion there is a standard process in place).

4) We are likely a couple days away from completing the rest of the communities (approximately 10 remain). We appreciate the patience from the community as we get through this difficult time.
Among those 25 communities, how many have been banned?
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Old 03-26-2019, 10:36 AM   #175
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Re: Pokerking Asia frozen accounts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lindyhppr View Post
No. Players who have been banned will not be allowed to ever play on the site again. Also, to be upfront, if a player who is banned is ever found to play on the site again, their account will be closed and funds will be confiscated (again).
As much as I appreciate this, I'm not sure how you will ever be able to prevent/implement that. Even with KYC this wouldn't be possible. Those are people, who are maybe the worst possible scammers. They will just use every possible way/loophole to do it, but I'm still hoping that some will not try and/or do it somewhere else.
The same applies to shady agents, they will probably just use another middleman to start again, but this time with better setup and more sophisticated, depending on how much money is up for the grabs
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