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Old 07-23-2013, 05:19 AM   #101
Ansky
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Re: Multi-accounting cheating at high stakes - Jared Bleznick and more

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Originally Posted by durrrr View Post
ya i mean theres a bunch of actually cheated live poker games and way shadier stuff going on in the poker world than multiaccounting.

to be clear someone colluding (having 2 accounts in the same game) is outrageous and can + should be stopped. people playing on different accounts vs new people they havent played before isnt cool but is closer to angleshooting than marking the cards. a lot of people have multiaccounted vs me and unless its a personal friend i dont think its that big of a deal (im still not happy with it seeing as i give everyone action so i think its bs for them to do), but everyone else gets all worked up about it and yet a bunch of those same people will go play questionable live games.
So very disappointing to see you post this. Surely you realize you are looked up to and when you speak people listen. You didnt exactly give multi accounting your consent, but why post anything even mildly condoning it? We aren't talking about someone playing on someone else's account occasionally while they are bored or something. This is extremely deliberate and malicious multi accounting being used to squeeze out every cent available, from already winning players.
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Old 07-23-2013, 05:33 AM   #102
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Re: Multi-accounting cheating at high stakes - Jared Bleznick and more

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Originally Posted by MauiPunter View Post
People are whining cause their datamining ways are backfiring. If you were unable to collecting data on every one you play, then it wouldnt matter. Thats what needs to be addressed. HUDs are a crutch. PokerTracking websites should be banned as well. No one should be able to see how much someone is winning or losing. Just play the player and adjust. If he is playing too good, sit out and find weaker opponents. A few rounds at the table is all you need to figure out a players style. HSP players are rarely 20 tabling so they should be able to follow the action without HUDs.

I like the anonymous suggestion the best actually. That would solve all of this. I dont want people tracking my play, period. I remember back when Blom got railroaded because players got together to break down his play and ganged up on him. Thats such bs. If we were all anonymous that couldnt happen. I really hate the data-mining aspect of our game.
so agree with this, *** huds
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Old 07-23-2013, 05:55 AM   #103
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Re: Multi-accounting cheating at high stakes - Jared Bleznick and more

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Originally Posted by Ben Grundy View Post
Surely the sites need to address why this is happening? xxxxx is probably doing it to get action, especially at Heads Up.

If Bleznick fired up Stars or Full Tilt right now how many of those players (bumhunters) would play him? Maybe 5%? Often none.

What choice to players have if they can't find anyone that will give them action HU? Except maybe three/four guys like Sauce, Ben86 etc who play anyone
That's a ridiculous thing to say. How can the sites be responsible for other players only wanting to play games where they think they have a decent edge? Thats just obviously what will happen when a bunch of intelligent, greedy people start to get good at poker. I'm not defending it but the sites are certainly not responsible for this behaviour of the players. You look like you are essentially saying - well if you can't get HU action then of course you have to multi-account. And this is essentially the crux of the whole problem the way I see it.

I just think the situation now is pretty unfair to someone like me who has always had the same account on Stars/FTP the whole time. I have notes and reads on basically all my regular opponents (not from mining but from years of playing with them). Then I have to just watch new account after new account show up these days. I even asked some new Thai account the other day what they had changed from and they answered 'no i am real thai person lulz :P'. I don't know why people think this sort of scummy behaviour is OK. It puts me in a situation where I am at a disadvantage to them and the only way to level it is to start multi-accounting myself and risk getting my funds confiscated while crapping on the integrity of the games.

Stars should be more responsible for this. It has to be so easy to make a new account if so many people are doing it. It seems to me like they should have better systems in place to flag up new multi-accounts at high stakes. Its not really necessary to police the whole of mid-stakes and below because the player pools are so big that the edge gained is not in the same league imo. If a new account starts firing up 4-9 tables of 5/10+ and people email Stars to complain they suspect a multi-account that should be enough to start up some sort of enquiry. When this happened with the Gordylamb account Stars farted around for so long that he got to cash out all the cheese and now just carries on playing on all his other accounts with money sucked out of the poker economy that I play in because he broke the TOS of the site and the sites need to be more responsible for this.

I would urge anyone who plays in these games to email Stars support@pokerstars.com and ask them to do something about this - make them aware of this thread. I'm going to fire off an email today.
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Old 07-23-2013, 06:06 AM   #104
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Re: Multi-accounting cheating at high stakes - Jared Bleznick and more

Stars have recently tried to improve the enviroment at HS, I don't know if it's made any difference yet but it's a start. If people keep applying pressure on them and other sites to take multi accounting seriously, especially HS guys who I feel will be taken more seriously, then maybe they will start cracking down.
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Old 07-23-2013, 06:54 AM   #105
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insecure much bro?
Not really, since I'm not a corporate lawyer. I just find the 'dishonest lawyer' joke to be so baseless and not particularly witty.
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Old 07-23-2013, 07:28 AM   #106
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Re: Multi-accounting cheating at high stakes - Jared Bleznick and more

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Originally Posted by Ansky View Post
So very disappointing to see you post this. Surely you realize you are looked up to and when you speak people listen. You didnt exactly give multi accounting your consent, but why post anything even mildly condoning it? We aren't talking about someone playing on someone else's account occasionally while they are bored or something. This is extremely deliberate and malicious multi accounting being used to squeeze out every cent available, from already winning players.
Sure it is disappointing that Durr does not get that breaking the rules and cheating is always bad for the game and players as well as being a barrier to legalised poker but it has the redeeming feature that his comments show just how widespread, standard and routine such cheating is.

When a big name basically admits it is happening but from the lofty heights of a skill level that means he cares not who he is giving action to says it does not bother him compared to the collusion it allows he has a point, its a bad one for those who care about being deceived about who they play when Durr cares not but it is true that collusion is worse.
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Old 07-23-2013, 07:52 AM   #107
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Re: Multi-accounting cheating at high stakes - Jared Bleznick and more

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Grundy View Post
Surely the sites need to address why this is happening? xxxxx is probably doing it to get action, especially at Heads Up.

If Bleznick fired up Stars or Full Tilt right now how many of those players (bumhunters) would play him? Maybe 5%? Often none.

What choice to players have if they can't find anyone that will give them action HU? Except maybe three/four guys like Sauce, Ben86 etc who play anyone
Choice? Players including you don't have the right to get action. And it does not justify cheating. There have been plenty of ringgame action and if playing is his and yours only concern ipoker or taking on the best players are an option. So is learning new games or playing lower. Its supposed to be fair system for everyone. Hopefully Pokerstars can find the cheaters and seize some balances to make the risk for multiaccounting much higher.

I did ask you some question in HSPLO that you are probably dodging. There is plenty of games on Pokerstars so your reason to stay away from your main account there (seating HU and playing 6m) seems very weak imo.

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Originally Posted by Ben Grundy View Post
Plus the fact that the HU games are dead, encourages people to multi account.... tons of people i know do it
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Originally Posted by Ben Grundy View Post
Nope i only play my account. I don't play Pokerstars much because there is never a chance to actually find a game. I played alot at the start of last year, but that was mainly ring games.

I'm not going to name any names, its not my place to do that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by thegreatdane1 View Post
Weird u complain about no games and multiaccounting but 'do not' take the time to seat and wait for action everyday on the biggest pokersite..

Do you know anything about the Harrington and ipartypoker accounts? What other accounts u think cheats? Why do you not multiaccount as well to get action? You think its wrong to multiaccount?

Why not name them since its benefit all including you to stop it (so weaker people have more money and will play more).

Lastly its amusing you complain about the seatscribt on 6max tables on Stars a few months ago if u 'do not' play 6max there anymore https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=4019
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Old 07-23-2013, 07:56 AM   #108
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Re: Multi-accounting cheating at high stakes - Jared Bleznick and more

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Originally Posted by blackchilli View Post
I have never seen so many fail posts by a single poster before. Gj ralph.

Also, lol caligula.
Think you should add durrrr to that list.

He should be a rep for FTP and the rules there. Do people think he have his own skeletons after BFI (playing on China/ Canada or Macau accounts) since he takes that standpoint?
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Old 07-23-2013, 08:22 AM   #109
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Re: Multi-accounting cheating at high stakes - Jared Bleznick and more

95% would do it if they know they can win tons of money. Those who say they wont are FOS
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Old 07-23-2013, 08:35 AM   #110
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Re: Multi-accounting cheating at high stakes - Jared Bleznick and more

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Originally Posted by thegreatdane1 View Post
Think you should add durrrr to that list.

He should be a rep for FTP and the rules there. Do people think he have his own skeletons after BFI (playing on China/ Canada or Macau accounts) since he takes that standpoint?
he's honest and knows what he's talking about.
problem with that? lol you. lol nvg. lol humanity.
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Old 07-23-2013, 09:25 AM   #111
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Re: Multi-accounting cheating at high stakes - Jared Bleznick and more

was going to say that I thought live games were farrrr shadier than online games, esp if not in a casino. I mean the chance you get cheated and the chance you cant do anything about it are far higher

it seems to me the problem of multiaccounting is a matter of technicality--it is unethical because it breaks the rules (bring on the flame). Make it legal and everyone is on equal ground, in which case what is the problem? Imo sweating someone results in a similar change in equity as well, but this is unpreventable. Same logic applies for whether huds should be allowed etc (except no one considers them unethical)

As for colluding, cheating etc I think the sites actually do do a decent job at preventing this...
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Old 07-23-2013, 09:28 AM   #112
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Re: Multi-accounting cheating at high stakes - Jared Bleznick and more

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Originally Posted by JudgeHoldem1848 View Post
FYP. Sorry the background and legal context of your post should be so obvious to anyone with 10k posts on a gambling forum that I would have to call it disingenuous.
Pretty simple. In order for gambling to be legitimate it needs to be voluntary. Lying to get action that your opponent does not want to give is fraudulent.
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Old 07-23-2013, 09:46 AM   #113
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Re: Multi-accounting cheating at high stakes - Jared Bleznick and more

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Originally Posted by Hero Value View Post
Surely they are more likely to not ban the losing players, which would be keeping the high stakes games going more than winning players. Obviously people wise up to the winning MAers and eventually stop giving them action (as with most of the Harrington accounts).
Losing players go broke and stop playing or get sick of losing and stop playing

Winning players are always at the tables and people will rail them
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Old 07-23-2013, 09:51 AM   #114
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Re: Multi-accounting cheating at high stakes - Jared Bleznick and more

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Originally Posted by pokervangelist View Post
Cant wait for the first cheating to be caught by Ultimate Poker and sent to Nevada Gaming Commission which is foaming at the mouth for cheaters. They will make the culprits an example with jail time something that no other site can do=thus the cheating will continue
This would be a disaster as it would play into the hands of all the people trying to get it banned

Especially as UP is the first. This would be a disaster for the future of online poker in the US
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Old 07-23-2013, 10:03 AM   #115
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Re: Multi-accounting cheating at high stakes - Jared Bleznick and more

Quote:
Originally Posted by durrrr View Post
ya i mean theres a bunch of actually cheated live poker games and way shadier stuff going on in the poker world than multiaccounting.

to be clear someone colluding (having 2 accounts in the same game) is outrageous and can + should be stopped. people playing on different accounts vs new people they havent played before isnt cool but is closer to angleshooting than marking the cards. a lot of people have multiaccounted vs me and unless its a personal friend i dont think its that big of a deal (im still not happy with it seeing as i give everyone action so i think its bs for them to do), but everyone else gets all worked up about it and yet a bunch of those same people will go play questionable live games.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ansky View Post
So very disappointing to see you post this. Surely you realize you are looked up to and when you speak people listen. You didnt exactly give multi accounting your consent, but why post anything even mildly condoning it? We aren't talking about someone playing on someone else's account occasionally while they are bored or something. This is extremely deliberate and malicious multi accounting being used to squeeze out every cent available, from already winning players.


Very good post Ansky.

Quote:
Originally Posted by durrrr View Post
people playing on different accounts vs new people they havent played before isnt cool but is closer to angleshooting than marking the cards.
They are (mostly) not playing on different accounts vs new people. As Ansky say its deliberate multi accounting. These people clearly play people they mostly have lots history with, often spanning over a few years.



Jungle: your basically proposing that people can change screen names if they wish? I agree that put people on more equal ground compared to today's situation if that's your point.

The problem right now is that people are not on equal ground and that people are cheating by breaking the rules to gain an edge while getting away with it, and should be stopped unless the site change the rules (imo). If multiaccounting was legal it would not be a problem but this is simply not the case. I do think Pokerstars do a poor job at stopping multiaccounting in the HSPLO games since boobysmiles/ugotbanana started to change accounts. And its been especially bad after black friday. Ive no idea how much multi accounting / cheating it have been in the online NLHE games since I don't play them myself, besides what Ive read on 2p2 (Girah etc).
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Old 07-23-2013, 10:16 AM   #116
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Re: Multi-accounting cheating at high stakes - Jared Bleznick and more

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Originally Posted by jungleman View Post
was going to say that I thought live games were farrrr shadier than online games, esp if not in a casino. I mean the chance you get cheated and the chance you cant do anything about it are far higher

it seems to me the problem of multiaccounting is a matter of technicality--it is unethical because it breaks the rules (bring on the flame). Make it legal and everyone is on equal ground, in which case what is the problem? Imo sweating someone results in a similar change in equity as well, but this is unpreventable. Same logic applies for whether huds should be allowed etc (except no one considers them unethical)

As for colluding, cheating etc I think the sites actually do do a decent job at preventing this...
Eh, didn't you multi account with your best friends Girah and Haseeb and have to forfeit some 1st place prize or something along those lines?
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Old 07-23-2013, 10:50 AM   #117
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Why are durrr and jungle even mentioning live poker shadiness? Its not relevant at all to high stakes multi accounting.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using 2+2 Forums
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Old 07-23-2013, 12:07 PM   #118
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Re: Multi-accounting cheating at high stakes - Jared Bleznick and more

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Originally Posted by thegreatdane1 View Post
Choice? Players including you don't have the right to get action. And it does not justify cheating. There have been plenty of ringgame action and if playing is his and yours only concern ipoker or taking on the best players are an option. So is learning new games or playing lower. Its supposed to be fair system for everyone. Hopefully Pokerstars can find the cheaters and seize some balances to make the risk for multiaccounting much higher.

I did ask you some question in HSPLO that you are probably dodging. There is plenty of games on Pokerstars so your reason to stay away from your main account there (seating HU and playing 6m) seems very weak imo.
Saying there is plenty of ring game action, is fine if you want to play ring games. What i am saying is if you want to get action at $10/$20+ on Stars HU, you will probably have to consider multi-accounting as an option.

The reason i didn't answer your question in a previous thread is that i'm not going to point the finger at anyone, its not my job. I think most people who have been around highstakes online poker for as long as I have, could mention a bunch of people that have multi-accounted, but like me they keep the info to themselves.
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Old 07-23-2013, 12:13 PM   #119
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Re: Multi-accounting cheating at high stakes - Jared Bleznick and more

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Originally Posted by Ben Grundy View Post
Saying there is plenty of ring game action, is fine if you want to play ring games. What i am saying is if you want to get action at $10/$20+ on Stars HU, you will probably have to consider multi-accounting as an option.

The reason i didn't answer your question in a previous thread is that i'm not going to point the finger at anyone, its not my job. I think most people who have been around highstakes online poker for as long as I have, could mention a bunch of people that have multi-accounted, but like me they keep the info to themselves.
Why would you keep the Info to yourself?? Should you not expose them (who are multi-accounting) and possibly stop other players from losing money to them??
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Old 07-23-2013, 12:18 PM   #120
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Re: Multi-accounting cheating at high stakes - Jared Bleznick and more

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Originally Posted by Hu one-time? View Post
Why would you keep the Info to yourself?? Should you not expose them (who are multi-accounting) and possibly stop other players from losing money to them??
Mostly because they trusted me with the info at the time, so i'm not going to break that trust. I don't know tons of people, just a few. Some of them lost on extra accounts or just don't play much anymore. I don't know as much about the games in the last year or so, as i don't travel the tourney circuit anymore.
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Old 07-23-2013, 12:23 PM   #121
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Re: Multi-accounting cheating at high stakes - Jared Bleznick and more

Another thing that should be considered. Most players think multi accounting is ok when a huge whale who plays 400/800 wants to change his ID, but is scummy when a 25/50 reg just wants to find action. Seems like everyone wants to stop the odd pro that does it, but its fine when a fish does it.

Way more money has come into the poker economy through multi accounting, than has been taken out of it by a mile.
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Old 07-23-2013, 12:38 PM   #122
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Re: Multi-accounting cheating at high stakes - Jared Bleznick and more

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Originally Posted by Ben Grundy View Post
Saying there is plenty of ring game action, is fine if you want to play ring games. What i am saying is if you want to get action at $10/$20+ on Stars HU, you will probably have to consider multi-accounting as an option.
If this is just a HU issue then maybe the sites should turn all HU tables into anonymous tables...
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Old 07-23-2013, 12:41 PM   #123
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Re: Multi-accounting cheating at high stakes - Jared Bleznick and more

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Originally Posted by Ben Grundy View Post
Another thing that should be considered. Most players think multi accounting is ok when a huge whale who plays 400/800 wants to change his ID, but is scummy when a 25/50 reg just wants to find action. Seems like everyone wants to stop the odd pro that does it, but its fine when a fish does it.

Way more money has come into the poker economy through multi accounting, than has been taken out of it by a mile.
it's about intent and harm done. The fish who does it just wants to not be embarrassed by big losses being posted and the effect is positive for the entire poker economy. The pro who does it is doing it purely for the money and the effect is -ev on the entire poker economy apart from the person multi-accounting. Seriously anyone comparing the two (ethically, obviously both are against the letter of the rules) have some pretty serious logic problems.
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Old 07-23-2013, 12:42 PM   #124
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Re: Multi-accounting cheating at high stakes - Jared Bleznick and more

I don't see how multi accounting can be considered to be an angle. Angling is doing something unethical to gain an advantage without technically breaking any rules. Multi accounting is very clearly against the rules, so to multi account in order to gain an advantage is clearly cheating.

There really is no live equivalent to multi accounting. I can sort of see comparing it to a hustle like pretending to be drunk or worse at a game than someone really is, etc. Its still not the same though, because in one case it is very clearly banned.
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Old 07-23-2013, 12:50 PM   #125
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Re: Multi-accounting cheating at high stakes - Jared Bleznick and more

I wouldn't call it cheating. I mean you are breaking the rules of the poker site but not of the game of poker itself. But it is akin to angleshooting. You have all the info and a history with your opponent but your opponent believes you are a newcomer. So you definitely have a giant edge. Reminds me of the hand on The Big Game where Tony G went all in with AK, Hellmuth believed him and called with AJ.
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