Multi-accounting cheating at high stakes - Jared Bleznick and more
09-13-2013
, 12:27 PM
09-14-2013
, 01:24 PM
Quote:
Any highstakes player who has played jared consistently can spot his style in 2 seconds. It's very unique. The only player that even comes close is Xblink. You will never get "hard evidence" of what he is doing because he is too smart. Until someone steps forward and says they've witnessed him do it first hand (which i know exist) then you'll just have to use the evidence that is available. When you have 8 million dollars its pretty easy to buy friends and silence
?
09-20-2013
, 11:10 PM
09-23-2013
, 10:44 PM
2010 HSNL Multiaccounting Discussion
Picked out some quotes since I did not find any cliffs in the thread.
Is it possible that aba, eskabor and ashman is up to old tricks again? Any chance àny of those are connected to harrington?
Both ashman and aba is still playing small volume on Pokerstars and have plenty of incentive to multiaccount if they currently live in US.
Brian Townsend multiaccounting thread
Picked out some quotes since I did not find any cliffs in the thread.
Quote:
would people be opposed to starting something like an official MAing thread where douchebags who do MA can be vilified/burned at the stake, people can "debate" the "gray area" so said douchebags can sleep a little better at night, and most importantly it could be a resource for when a new name pops up and someone wants to blow the whistle and alert people or even just throw out some theories, etc.
a lot of people are not as connected to the grape vine as others and would be a pretty big service to them, imo.
a lot of people are not as connected to the grape vine as others and would be a pretty big service to them, imo.
Quote:
i agree, although i think the sites are significantly more likely to be right than wrong about major policy issues.
i think the sites might be wrong about this one, actually. i always assumed that there would be tons of outrage about "who you were playing" if people could change their names online. i think that recreational players would enjoy name switches, too. something to change their luck, or whatever.
name changes would also be great for the ptr/datamining issues.
i think the sites might be wrong about this one, actually. i always assumed that there would be tons of outrage about "who you were playing" if people could change their names online. i think that recreational players would enjoy name switches, too. something to change their luck, or whatever.
name changes would also be great for the ptr/datamining issues.
Quote:
I'm in favour of being able to change screen-names and would like to see some sort of campaign to move this forward.
One quick thought: depending on the mechanism used to obtain a new screenname, you could get a group of people to rotate through using an individual screenname, making the other regs think they're still playing the same guy who can't be bothered to change it.
What the above makes me realize is that, when money and greed collide, it's near impossible to find some scenario which is workable for everyone and rewards ethical behaviour; however, that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for the integrity of the games we play in.
Lastly, Nick Rivers, you are the nuts.
One quick thought: depending on the mechanism used to obtain a new screenname, you could get a group of people to rotate through using an individual screenname, making the other regs think they're still playing the same guy who can't be bothered to change it.
What the above makes me realize is that, when money and greed collide, it's near impossible to find some scenario which is workable for everyone and rewards ethical behaviour; however, that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for the integrity of the games we play in.
Lastly, Nick Rivers, you are the nuts.
Quote:
The main thing that they can do is to actually start punishing it. They catch people all the time, and their typical response is to kindly transfer the money from the new account(s) back to the original and to ask nicely not to do it again. They could at least start confiscating money that people make from multiaccounting.
Quote:
No comment on the completely worn-out discussion of ZJ's past mistakes, but **** am I tired of seeing people make claims like this on this site, especially high-stakes players "in the know". Why even take the time to post something like this? Congratulations, you have more or less conclusive knowledge of cheating going on in the poker world and keep your friends from being cheated but let it slide with everyone else. The 'virtually no proof' argument just doesn't really fly for me; we're all big boys, we understand that the forums on 2p2 aren't a court of law and that you have to take what you hear with a grain of a salt, but ****, why are people so scared to blow the whistle on those in our community gaining unfair edges on others trying to keep it honest. For example, I've been playing high stakes online for like 7 years now and don't know a damn thing about the LA/Russian shared accounts, but hey, at least you and all your friends are privy! /rant
Quote:
I mean.. it's pretty obvious that the punishment for multiaccounting should be something to the effect of losing your extra accounts and losing any money that you made on the extra accounts. This type of solution has the really convenient side effect of barely penalizing huge donators who also multiaccount.
Quote:
It always amazes me how supposedly intelligent people are unable to think correctly due to the restrictions of the english language. I think it's in 1984 by George Orwell that the government removes words from the language to stop people thinking certain things. I guess it really works. I see so many arguments that are basically "This is cheating and that is cheating. They are both cheating therefore they are the same." It's like someone trying to claim that someone jerking off to a porno and later finding that one of the girls was underage and another guy raping a load of babies are the same because they've both been involved in paedophilia.
Banning PTR and buying mined HHs is a ******ed rule because it is completely unenforcable and people can do it undetected without too much hassle. It's also very easy to do, meaning that everyone does it and to not do it would leave you at a disadvantage. Therefore, the conclusion that someone who thinks well comes to is that it's a stupid rule and not worth following.
Multi-accounting is very clearly different to this and it should be the case that it is relatively well-enforced. Unfortunately it isn't but that doesn't mean that you should take advantage of it. When you multi-account to get action from someone who won't usually play you, you are specifically setting out to cheat that person who it is very likely hasn't cheated you/others in this way, whereas with PTR, it is very likely they have, and with mined HHs it is more a general thing to feel more comfortable playing 6 max without the intention to specifically cheat individuals.
I'm not arguing that PTR/mined HHs are necessarily a good thing, and if they could be stamped out then it might be good to do so. But as this isn't the case, they are necessary atm. Multi-accounting is clearly different from this. I expect some insightful replies as always
Banning PTR and buying mined HHs is a ******ed rule because it is completely unenforcable and people can do it undetected without too much hassle. It's also very easy to do, meaning that everyone does it and to not do it would leave you at a disadvantage. Therefore, the conclusion that someone who thinks well comes to is that it's a stupid rule and not worth following.
Multi-accounting is very clearly different to this and it should be the case that it is relatively well-enforced. Unfortunately it isn't but that doesn't mean that you should take advantage of it. When you multi-account to get action from someone who won't usually play you, you are specifically setting out to cheat that person who it is very likely hasn't cheated you/others in this way, whereas with PTR, it is very likely they have, and with mined HHs it is more a general thing to feel more comfortable playing 6 max without the intention to specifically cheat individuals.
I'm not arguing that PTR/mined HHs are necessarily a good thing, and if they could be stamped out then it might be good to do so. But as this isn't the case, they are necessary atm. Multi-accounting is clearly different from this. I expect some insightful replies as always
Quote:
this is sauce ma-ing 2p2
so much of this thread is garbage. ike and fwf have made good points. a few points which i dont think have been made well enough yet:
1. what should be the guide to online poker ethics? community dialogue or rigid adherence to the sites rules or some combination of both? i think from ftp's response to ike it's clear that the world's top judicial minds have gone somewhere else for employment. they appear to have made deliberately vague rules which allow them to both cover their ass from a public relations perspective as well as arbitrate however they so desire on a case by case basis, which, (Gasp!) is the strategy which will save them the most headaches and make them the most money... for example, they can save some big name pros (pa) and censure others (aba) when in reality a large chunk of pros have multiaccounted and likely 98%+ have repeatedly broken elements of the ridiculous terms of service.
which brings me to
2) I see the current climate of MA ing/ghosting/PTR using/swapping HH ing as something close to a prisoner's dilemma. it's probably all in our best interests to stop abusing all of these things and risk the 2% chance to be lynched by FTP when they decide to enforce the terms of service. however, any half competent hu reg has a huge incentive to cheat in the current climate- systematic and well hidden ma-ing could increase the earn of a tough hu player like me by a huge margin, and increases the earn of anyone who is even moderately tough by a significant amount. it also helps in 6max. the increase in earn dwarfs the -ev of getting caught, im impressed by all of the people in the community who have the scruples not to cheat. it is so easy to rationalize (hi eskaborr) that cheating is ok to 'get even' in some twisted way, especially for a marginal winner. without a large adjustment to the site's policies and punishment system to change the incentives of cheating i dont think we can possibly make it very far.
3. the emotional hand wringing about the evilness of cheating is pretty silly. let's reflect for just a moment on the history of poker. poker was born of cheating, hell, johnny moss bragged constantly about cheating people, thought it was part of the game. it probably was. i am interested in poker in 2010 because it has shown itself to be an amazing strategy game and an amazing psychological game where i can win money by outplaying others without any subterfuge. i dont cheat mostly out of an aesthetic decision along these lines- the fair poker is the game i feel proud playing. i think the sites have found this version of poker marketable, i hope they will take steps so that their incentive structure forces the greedy pros to play fair poker with us.
so much of this thread is garbage. ike and fwf have made good points. a few points which i dont think have been made well enough yet:
1. what should be the guide to online poker ethics? community dialogue or rigid adherence to the sites rules or some combination of both? i think from ftp's response to ike it's clear that the world's top judicial minds have gone somewhere else for employment. they appear to have made deliberately vague rules which allow them to both cover their ass from a public relations perspective as well as arbitrate however they so desire on a case by case basis, which, (Gasp!) is the strategy which will save them the most headaches and make them the most money... for example, they can save some big name pros (pa) and censure others (aba) when in reality a large chunk of pros have multiaccounted and likely 98%+ have repeatedly broken elements of the ridiculous terms of service.
which brings me to
2) I see the current climate of MA ing/ghosting/PTR using/swapping HH ing as something close to a prisoner's dilemma. it's probably all in our best interests to stop abusing all of these things and risk the 2% chance to be lynched by FTP when they decide to enforce the terms of service. however, any half competent hu reg has a huge incentive to cheat in the current climate- systematic and well hidden ma-ing could increase the earn of a tough hu player like me by a huge margin, and increases the earn of anyone who is even moderately tough by a significant amount. it also helps in 6max. the increase in earn dwarfs the -ev of getting caught, im impressed by all of the people in the community who have the scruples not to cheat. it is so easy to rationalize (hi eskaborr) that cheating is ok to 'get even' in some twisted way, especially for a marginal winner. without a large adjustment to the site's policies and punishment system to change the incentives of cheating i dont think we can possibly make it very far.
3. the emotional hand wringing about the evilness of cheating is pretty silly. let's reflect for just a moment on the history of poker. poker was born of cheating, hell, johnny moss bragged constantly about cheating people, thought it was part of the game. it probably was. i am interested in poker in 2010 because it has shown itself to be an amazing strategy game and an amazing psychological game where i can win money by outplaying others without any subterfuge. i dont cheat mostly out of an aesthetic decision along these lines- the fair poker is the game i feel proud playing. i think the sites have found this version of poker marketable, i hope they will take steps so that their incentive structure forces the greedy pros to play fair poker with us.
Is it possible that aba, eskabor and ashman is up to old tricks again? Any chance àny of those are connected to harrington?
Both ashman and aba is still playing small volume on Pokerstars and have plenty of incentive to multiaccount if they currently live in US.
Brian Townsend multiaccounting thread
Quote:
Bump because of lol blog by ashman.
Quote:
afaik he did it for 10k hands while his primary account was banned, he went back to his primary without getting caught, and in the past 2 years he has played 700,000 hands on theashman103 across PS and FTP. im just curious, you believe he deserves to be lumped into the same sentence as ugotabanana who has MA'ed a half dozen times and not quit until his accounts were frozen? im just curious.
edit: i apologize if it appears im trying to justify it, im not, i've obviously played hundreds of thousands of hands while having a helluva time getting action, i think my actions speak louder than words that i believe MA'ing to be unacceptable, im just curious
edit: i apologize if it appears im trying to justify it, im not, i've obviously played hundreds of thousands of hands while having a helluva time getting action, i think my actions speak louder than words that i believe MA'ing to be unacceptable, im just curious
Quote:
If his hands were tied by his circumstances, why didn't he tell the people he was playing against (who apparently wouldnt have played him) that he was playing under a new name when he was playing them? Doesn't even have to be in the chat window, the community up that high is very small and most everybody is contactable in private.
Quote:
truthfully, im not interested in getting into that. i've preached a million times to ashton about a million things. he's green, to say the least, and i have no idea what his motivations were at any given moment.
im curious to see if the consensus is that ashton = ugotabanana
im curious to see if the consensus is that ashton = ugotabanana
