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Old 02-10-2021, 01:19 AM   #101
pontylad
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re: Landon Tice lays 9bb to Perkins: HU challenge

It's a supposed friend that is clearly trying to angle him for money. There's no need for a respectful reply.
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Old 02-10-2021, 01:28 AM   #102
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re: Landon Tice lays 9bb to Perkins: HU challenge

online bookmaking isn't more respectable than someone trying to angle a bet which didn't lay out the terms correctly. he is right, sometimes you take a loss and move on, learn from mistakes. make sure everything is clear if you want to keep that honest reputation.
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Old 02-10-2021, 02:29 AM   #103
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re: Landon Tice lays 9bb to Perkins: HU challenge

Cliffs:

1. Pokershares do not properly describe terms of deal before accepting bets (evidenced by the follow up email they sent)

2. Chan attempts to take advantage of this by placing bets then claiming he did not know terms (evidence for this is any reasonable, competent person would know of the 9bb terms before placing a bet)

3. Timex displays poor professional judgement in his communication with Chan (evidenced by chat logs and epitomized by Timex's opening 'are you dumb')

4. Pokershares, Timex and Chan all in the wrong. An agreement should be reached between the parties or arbitrated.

5. 2p2 reacts in absolutes that either Timex is 100% correct or Chan is 100% correct.
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Old 02-10-2021, 02:33 AM   #104
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re: Landon Tice lays 9bb to Perkins: HU challenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Micropunter View Post
Cliffs:

1. Pokershares do not properly describe terms of deal before accepting bets (evidenced by the follow up email they sent)

2. Chan attempts to take advantage of this by placing bets then claiming he did not know terms (evidence for this is any reasonable, competent person would know of the 9bb terms before placing a bet)

3. Timex displays poor professional judgement in his communication with Chan (evidenced by chat logs and epitomized by Timex's opening 'are you dumb')

4. Pokershares, Timex and Chan all in the wrong. An agreement should be reached between the parties or arbitrated.

5. 2p2 reacts in absolutes that either Timex is 100% correct or Chan is 100% correct.
That's correct until point 4. Where by it reverts to the TOC and Timex is in the right. Nothing else matters.
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Old 02-10-2021, 02:37 AM   #105
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re: Landon Tice lays 9bb to Perkins: HU challenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by newguyhere View Post
Someone that plays poker for a living.

Would Perkins be even money against any of them?
Perkins is a losing player.
A professional player wins money longterm.

The answer is no.
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Old 02-10-2021, 03:50 AM   #106
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re: Landon Tice lays 9bb to Perkins: HU challenge

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Originally Posted by pontylad View Post
That's correct until point 4. Where by it reverts to the TOC and Timex is in the right. Nothing else matters.
This. Being "in the wrong" in terms of polite communication or (supposedly) being "entitled" is not something that justifies reopening the original financial issue.

Apart from the "palpable error" get out thing the meaning of "challenge" is clear enough. I bet politics and sportsbooks issue clarifications all the time for things that are clear to the majority of people (for example that Trump didn't leave office for the purpose of bets when he merely went into hospital with Covid and handed his powers over) - it's tricky to write things that will always be interpreted the same way by 100 percent of people and issuing a clarification isn't an admission that they were wrong originally, it just means they'd rather have a dispute with 0 percent of their clients rather than 1 percent.
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Old 02-10-2021, 04:11 AM   #107
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re: Landon Tice lays 9bb to Perkins: HU challenge

pretty sure Bill hasn't finished his challenge with PG?

And Terrence Chan making a fuss after failing to angle his friend for a 1k bet is pretty low

Last edited by yasuo; 02-10-2021 at 04:30 AM.
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Old 02-10-2021, 08:50 AM   #108
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re: Landon Tice lays 9bb to Perkins: HU challenge

what is a landon tice
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Old 02-10-2021, 09:17 AM   #109
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re: Landon Tice lays 9bb to Perkins: HU challenge

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Originally Posted by shorshi View Post
what is a landon tice
Land on ice. Hahahaha
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Old 02-10-2021, 09:21 AM   #110
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re: Landon Tice lays 9bb to Perkins: HU challenge

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Originally Posted by auralex14 View Post
I know theyíve known each other for 20 years or so, but I canít imagine they were anything more than acquaintances based on how catty they both were in their Twitter spat.

Ultimately, I think Terrance bears most of the blame. He shouldnít have publicly attacked Pokershares and Mike, and they had every right to cancel his action.

That said, clearly the terms of the bet werenít that clear if Pokershares felt the need to send an email verifying Chanís bet. I bet a lot and Iíve never had a book contact me after I place one and say ĎAre you sure? You can cancel within 24 hours.í

Once it was all said and done, Timexís reaction was over-the-top, similar to how he went after Schulman with the free throw prop bet. Iím a fan of Timex, but he comes across as a bully which is a tad surprising and probably not the best look from a customer service standpoint.
What he shouldn't have done is respond to Timex's insults. People need to know what a scummy and dishonest operator he is.
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Old 02-10-2021, 09:22 AM   #111
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re: Landon Tice lays 9bb to Perkins: HU challenge

A HU match should involve either 1) two feuding parties, if not TWO well known players. Landon Tice may be known to a small incrowd of online poker players, but bottom line nobody will give a fuxk about this challenge. Perkins if he wants to ride the wave of the Polk-Negreanu match shoulda gotten Hellmuth or a similar character to play him, Tice is no crowd-drawer.
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Old 02-10-2021, 09:48 AM   #112
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re: Landon Tice lays 9bb to Perkins: HU challenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by timex View Post
Ya lol. If Terrance wants to arbitrate I'll lay 3:1 on his net worth that it resolves in my favor. Just a ridiculous precedent to set where I'd rather just pay him 1k than deal with wasting my time

There should not be any arbitration. You should be booking 3 $1,000 bets @ 1.09 with no blind handicap.

And you should fix your software to not allow multiple 1k bets to go through if you do not want that. And get better employees who can put a description of the bets you are offering. If any random user clicks on that bet they think they got one guy vs another at 1.09 with no handicap.

It is possible you would win in arbitration if you pick clueless poker or ex poker pros who think one sided like you do.

After all, aren't you the guy who did arbitration on what a "dime" meant in sportsbetting and butchered that when any middle school bookie could have got it correctly
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Old 02-10-2021, 10:07 AM   #113
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re: Landon Tice lays 9bb to Perkins: HU challenge

A prominent Vegas Bookmaker was on a podcast last week and was asked if they made any mistakes on props that would go against the house and he replied no that they have been fortunate not to make any mistakes for a while since they offered a prop on Blount scoring a TD in the Super Bowl @ +340 or something which they honor.

I probably have bet more props than anyone in the world the past 4-5 years and come across stuff like this all the time. Last week I bet under -170 on under 2.5 players attempting a pass in the superbowl at multiple shops. I found a +175 and max bet it. They reversed the odds not long after and my bet was kept open and paid obv.

I could give about 500 more examples where stuff like this happens and have never had a bet reversed or canceled because a book made a mistake and have certainly never received an email from any book telling me that I am betting on something different than they posted which is what happened at pokershares.

Anyone who thinks some handicap should also be included because it is "common knowledge" is wrong. Not everyone is a poker nerd and should not be required to know there is a handicap in place on a match where it is clearly listed as a "pickem" with 9 % juice.

Whether Chan is throwing an "angle" here is not relevant. Him and Mike can fight about that on the side. The site has a responsibility to book the bets they offer and they are backing out and changing the rules on the fly. It is another black eye for the industry as a whole which is not needed and could have been avoided easily.

Last edited by chinamaniac; 02-10-2021 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 02-10-2021, 10:20 AM   #114
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re: Landon Tice lays 9bb to Perkins: HU challenge

Everyone knows Pokershares is amateur hour.
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Old 02-10-2021, 10:36 AM   #115
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re: Landon Tice lays 9bb to Perkins: HU challenge

In general, any Las Vegas sports bets, live or on app are honored even if wrong. But if egregious then you could get banned, depending on how much you bet or if you are a repeat offender of this.

Online books like BM will just cancel the bet at some point, even after game starts sometimes and its no action and marked "wrong line".
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Old 02-10-2021, 10:50 AM   #116
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re: Landon Tice lays 9bb to Perkins: HU challenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by pontylad View Post
That's correct until point 4. Where by it reverts to the TOC and Timex is in the right. Nothing else matters.
Yeah it's super standard lol, how is this even a story?

Bookies always cancel if line is erroneous. Sounds like Vegas is different but there you go.
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Old 02-10-2021, 11:37 AM   #117
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re: Landon Tice lays 9bb to Perkins: HU challenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by chinamaniac View Post
A prominent Vegas Bookmaker was on a podcast last week...
Pokershares offer novel bets all the time. When something is called "heads up challenge" on pokershares one really need to take some personal responsibility and look up what it is that you are betting on and not just assume "oh hey it's just a 1on1 poker match ldo what else can it be".

It's not a national football game bet where you can reasonably expect the rules to be set in stone and the same as all other games. It's a damn "HU poker challenge" on pokershares for christs sake.. Could be ****ing anything. Google it before firing $3000 on it.

Lol @ anyone finding out that Bill Perkins v Landon Tice even exists and NOT be aware of the bb/100 stipulation. Ridiculous. Timex is kinda spot on with "are you dumb?"

What's next - betting on Charlie Carrel beating 500z and being upset when you didn't win the bet after he won a hand? "I mean he beat the other guy in the hand so it should count what do you mean bb/100 50k hands???"
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Old 02-10-2021, 11:43 AM   #118
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re: Landon Tice lays 9bb to Perkins: HU challenge

Tbh anyone making/taking bets on this has to be a bit dumb. I can very well see a durrr/Jungleman scenario happen where money is left in limbo.

Perkins is not going to grind out 20k hands within a few months.
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Old 02-10-2021, 11:45 AM   #119
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re: Landon Tice lays 9bb to Perkins: HU challenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by chinamaniac View Post
A prominent Vegas Bookmaker was on a podcast last week and was asked if they made any mistakes on props that would go against the house and he replied no that they have been fortunate not to make any mistakes for a while since they offered a prop on Blount scoring a TD in the Super Bowl @ +340 or something which they honor.

I probably have bet more props than anyone in the world the past 4-5 years and come across stuff like this all the time. Last week I bet under -170 on under 2.5 players attempting a pass in the superbowl at multiple shops. I found a +175 and max bet it. They reversed the odds not long after and my bet was kept open and paid obv.

I could give about 500 more examples where stuff like this happens and have never had a bet reversed or canceled because a book made a mistake and have certainly never received an email from any book telling me that I am betting on something different than they posted which is what happened at pokershares.

Anyone who thinks some handicap should also be included because it is "common knowledge" is wrong. Not everyone is a poker nerd and should not be required to know there is a handicap in place on a match where it is clearly listed as a "pickem" with 9 % juice.

Whether Chan is throwing an "angle" here is not relevant. Him and Mike can fight about that on the side. The site has a responsibility to book the bets they offer and they are backing out and changing the rules on the fly. It is another black eye for the industry as a whole which is not needed and could have been avoided easily.
End thread
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Old 02-10-2021, 11:54 AM   #120
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Landon tice lays 9bb to Perkins: HU challenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by chinamaniac View Post
A prominent Vegas Bookmaker was on a podcast last week and was asked if they made any mistakes on props that would go against the house and he replied no that they have been fortunate not to make any mistakes for a while since they offered a prop on Blount scoring a TD in the Super Bowl @ +340 or something which they honor.

I probably have bet more props than anyone in the world the past 4-5 years and come across stuff like this all the time. Last week I bet under -170 on under 2.5 players attempting a pass in the superbowl at multiple shops. I found a +175 and max bet it. They reversed the odds not long after and my bet was kept open and paid obv.

I could give about 500 more examples where stuff like this happens and have never had a bet reversed or canceled because a book made a mistake and have certainly never received an email from any book telling me that I am betting on something different than they posted which is what happened at pokershares.

Anyone who thinks some handicap should also be included because it is "common knowledge" is wrong. Not everyone is a poker nerd and should not be required to know there is a handicap in place on a match where it is clearly listed as a "pickem" with 9 % juice.

Whether Chan is throwing an "angle" here is not relevant. Him and Mike can fight about that on the side. The site has a responsibility to book the bets they offer and they are backing out and changing the rules on the fly. It is another black eye for the industry as a whole which is not needed and could have been avoided easily.

You donít sports bet as much as you claim then, every site has a clause for a clearly mis-listed line. If they switch the -500 favorite to +500 on accident and you bet, it will get cancelled at every major book. Props have lower limits so maybe they just decide itís not worth, but for totals and games would always get corrected.


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Old 02-10-2021, 11:55 AM   #121
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re: Landon Tice lays 9bb to Perkins: HU challenge

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Originally Posted by Masq View Post
Tbh anyone making/taking bets on this has to be a bit dumb. I can very well see a durrr/Jungleman scenario happen where money is left in limbo.

Perkins is not going to grind out 20k hands within a few months.
Wait, there is a hand stipulation AS WELL? That wasn't mentioned on the betting page. It just said "bets void if 0 hands are played". What a scam. I thought the hands to be played was... Uhm.... Err.... I dunno. It's not on the betting page so it should be whatever I want it to be
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Old 02-10-2021, 12:02 PM   #122
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re: Landon Tice lays 9bb to Perkins: HU challenge

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Originally Posted by Loctus View Post
Wait, there is a hand stipulation AS WELL? That wasn't mentioned on the betting page. It just said "bets void if 0 hands are played". What a scam. I thought the hands to be played was... Uhm.... Err.... I dunno. It's not on the betting page so it should be whatever I want it to be
Exactly, like I posted a few days ago, the line showed Tice -720k I believe, but did not say that 20k hands must be played.
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Old 02-10-2021, 12:05 PM   #123
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re: Landon Tice lays 9bb to Perkins: HU challenge

Even now, it shows "Landon Tice to win more than $720k" or "Bill Perkins to lose less than $720k or win" but does not say anything about number of hands. Only void if 0 hands played.
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Old 02-10-2021, 12:43 PM   #124
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re: Landon Tice lays 9bb to Perkins: HU challenge

Imagine shilling/whiteknighting for a ****ing bookie. Lol@ some posters on here.

The precedent for a poker HU match is to play X amount of hands and the winner at the end is the winner. Anyone who didnt know the specifics of this bet would reasonably assume that its a straight up HU match with no handicap. Its irrelevant whether Chan knew about the handicap or not as thats pure speculation from Pokershares. Pokershares are in the wrong.
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Old 02-10-2021, 12:52 PM   #125
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re: Landon Tice lays 9bb to Perkins: HU challenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loctus View Post
Pokershares offer novel bets all the time. When something is called "heads up challenge" on pokershares one really need to take some personal responsibility and look up what it is that you are betting on and not just assume "oh hey it's just a 1on1 poker match ldo what else can it be".

It's not a national football game bet where you can reasonably expect the rules to be set in stone and the same as all other games. It's a damn "HU poker challenge" on pokershares for christs sake.. Could be ****ing anything. Google it before firing $3000 on it.

Lol @ anyone finding out that Bill Perkins v Landon Tice even exists and NOT be aware of the bb/100 stipulation. Ridiculous. Timex is kinda spot on with "are you dumb?"

What's next - betting on Charlie Carrel beating 500z and being upset when you didn't win the bet after he won a hand? "I mean he beat the other guy in the hand so it should count what do you mean bb/100 50k hands???"
I played poker professionally for over a decade. I have no clue who Landon Tice is. He could be some massive businessman loser for all I know. The line is -109 both ways. Your telling me I should be punished if I bet on Tice on a hunch? No way. Not everyone is a poker nerd and sniffs all the pros underpants day in and day out.

Secondly this challenge will have more action on it than some major sport props like NFL. So do not try to mask this like some little poor shop is being taken advantage of.

Pokershares has probably made more money off of taking Bill Perkins action than the combined net worth of whoever was involved in the company when the business launched. They can certainly afford to take the worst of it for a few thousand on one of their errors.

Heres another good comparison from a prop at a big book that I took advantage of and is very comparable to this challenge. The prop was on NCAA Football and was

“Who will have more Rushing yards”

Najee Harris -120

Or

Some scrub on other team -120

I bet Harris with no yards handicap because they did not list it. It should have been -80 yards or so. They fixed it but my action was live and I won and was paid

So your telling me it is the bettors responsibility to go and see how bad the other guy is or who good the defense is hes going against?

That is absolutely laughable if you think yes. Its Joe Publics job TO BET. It is the bookies job to set a line.

Set a line and take a bet , the action is live/ thread
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