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Old 04-23-2013, 10:59 PM   #1
purplebliss
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Diamond Ivey, Antonius, Viffer Claim to Have Never Read a Poker Book

And a few more top pros (forgot who) have said that as well. Of course, one may not believe them but I personally do. And thus, I have the question, how the hell did they get so good?

P.S. I believe the question is legitimate, interesting and worthy of serious discussion. Hopefully, the censors will stay away.
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:02 PM   #2
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I think its very possible. How could you really know for sure though. Youre guess is as good as anyone else's.
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:02 PM   #3
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Re: Ivey, Antonius, Viffer Claim to Have Never Read a Poker Book

Doing the practising and the thinking.
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:07 PM   #4
The Detonator
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Re: Ivey, Antonius, Viffer Claim to Have Never Read a Poker Book

Since when did reading a poker book become the make it or break it?

if you asked me this question yesterday, I would've bet a decent amount that Ivey has never read one either
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:12 PM   #5
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Re: Ivey, Antonius, Viffer Claim to Have Never Read a Poker Book

Judging by 2+2 threads a lot of poker players have never read any kind of book....
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:18 PM   #6
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Re: Ivey, Antonius, Viffer Claim to Have Never Read a Poker Book

not surprising.. a lot of poker is being able to think about how to handle unique situations, so being told what to do in a book doesnt reinforce much thinking on your own part

its the same concept as 2+2 strat threads.. there's a difference between reading responses and writing your own response
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:27 PM   #7
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Re: Ivey, Antonius, Viffer Claim to Have Never Read a Poker Book

op is overrating the wisdom within poker books
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:29 PM   #8
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Re: Ivey, Antonius, Viffer Claim to Have Never Read a Poker Book

2/3 of the players listed don't know how to read. I won't tell you which 2.
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:39 PM   #9
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Re: Ivey, Antonius, Viffer Claim to Have Never Read a Poker Book

Some players just have the "it" factor. They just have the ability to beat everyone through pure talent even never having played a hand of poker in their life. From his post we can tell that OP has this "it" factor, all he needs to do is deposit his liferoll and start crushing high stakes.
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:57 PM   #10
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Re: Ivey, Antonius, Viffer Claim to Have Never Read a Poker Book

viffer reads nvg sometimes, so he has to have gained a lot of wisdom from that.
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:04 AM   #11
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Re: Ivey, Antonius, Viffer Claim to Have Never Read a Poker Book

I run a poker training site and I'm the first to admit that they are not necessary to success.

The only thing I've found universally true that anybody needs is experience. I've never seen anybody learn poker for the first time then quickly crush everyone.

Other than that, things like good poker videos, HUDs, good poker books, good poker programs, they are positive things but they are not a requirement in order to succeed.

Using them successfully can help you, but they are not the engine that drives the car, so to speak.
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:42 AM   #12
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Re: Ivey, Antonius, Viffer Claim to Have Never Read a Poker Book

I believe it. I mean most people who play poker read books and study and stuff. But there are always people who do their own thing. I'm sure most of the "I don't read poker books"-type people have gone busto and quit the game long ago, but there are always a few outliers who are able to come up with their own strategies and approach to the game and succeed at it.
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:19 AM   #13
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Re: Ivey, Antonius, Viffer Claim to Have Never Read a Poker Book

Quote:
Ivey, Antonius, Viffer Claim to Have Never Read a Poker Book written by an idiot
fyt
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:19 AM   #14
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Re: Ivey, Antonius, Viffer Claim to Have Never Read a Poker Book

i hear that tiger woods has never read a book about golf WHAT??
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:21 AM   #15
Nickleb191
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Ivey can't read
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:52 AM   #16
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Re: Ivey, Antonius, Viffer Claim to Have Never Read a Poker Book

I believe them, reading poker books is counterproductive, you either have it or you don't.

I wouldn't have expected it from Viffer though, guy looks like a nerd through and through.

Ivey and Antonius? Not surprising. Hand Lil Jerome a book (poker book or not) and he'll probably give you that same ******ed look that he has at the tables. And Antonius is too great looking, he doesn't need to read books in general. Those guys with model looks have everything handed to them their whole life anyway, all they need to do is exist, they don't need books or intelligence.
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:10 AM   #17
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Re: Ivey, Antonius, Viffer Claim to Have Never Read a Poker Book

If it's true that they said that, all 3 of them are bluffing
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:20 AM   #18
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Re: Ivey, Antonius, Viffer Claim to Have Never Read a Poker Book

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoneyBoye View Post
I believe them, reading poker books is counterproductive, you either have it or you don't.

I wouldn't have expected it from Viffer though, guy looks like a nerd through and through.

Ivey and Antonius? Not surprising. Hand Lil Jerome a book (poker book or not) and he'll probably give you that same ******ed look that he has at the tables. And Antonius is too great looking, he doesn't need to read books in general. Those guys with model looks have everything handed to them their whole life anyway, all they need to do is exist, they don't need books or intelligence.
man crush on antonious
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:29 AM   #19
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Re: Ivey, Antonius, Viffer Claim to Have Never Read a Poker Book

It was easier 20 years ago to pick up poker and learn to beat fish on your own. Perhaps with the help of a mentor, a grizzled old regular who gave basic tips (hand selection, etc.). And then just playing a ton. Nowadays, even the microstakes have very knowledgeable players. You have to come prepared from day one. I think it's very hard to beat the game today without reading books.
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:50 AM   #20
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Re: Ivey, Antonius, Viffer Claim to Have Never Read a Poker Book

No book jerome
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Old 04-24-2013, 03:01 AM   #21
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Re: Ivey, Antonius, Viffer Claim to Have Never Read a Poker Book

You make this thread in BQ and get some sensible answers before its locked, so you come make it here?
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Old 04-24-2013, 03:26 AM   #22
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Re: Ivey, Antonius, Viffer Claim to Have Never Read a Poker Book

Beginner gonna beginner
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Old 04-24-2013, 03:44 AM   #23
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Re: Ivey, Antonius, Viffer Claim to Have Never Read a Poker Book

I would be skeptical of that claim that they haven't read any books because it's hard to dedicate your life to something and not care what other people who have been successful in the field think about it, especially when there is so much material out there.

But in Ivey's case he was successful before the boom when there were not too many books out there and what was out there probably wasn't in the local bookstore outside of Vegas. If he was successful without reading books he might have not wanted to mess with his style at all by integrating other peoples' ideas. If it's not broke why mess with it?

I guess it's plausible for the other two as well. If you run like Bruce Willis in Die Hard early on and are playing high stakes quickly where you playing against a smaller pool of players there is no point in developing strategies against the generic opponent such as books give. But with Antonius coming up online (if I have that right) his story is the one I doubt. If you are playing against a ton of random people it would be idiotic to not try and gain a lot of insight into their thought processes by reading the same things they read. Also I would characterize PA's playing style as more conservative and less risky than the other two, which is what books teach.
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Old 04-24-2013, 04:20 AM   #24
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Re: Ivey, Antonius, Viffer Claim to Have Never Read a Poker Book

Ivey is good friends with the people that write the books, and Viffer has access to 2p2 and of course friends. Doesn't that negate the interest of your implied thesis, OP?
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Old 04-24-2013, 04:22 AM   #25
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Re: Ivey, Antonius, Viffer Claim to Have Never Read a Poker Book

What is written in books is rarely (if ever) on the cutting edge of the evolution of poker. No reason for Ivey to read books he clearly learned the game through intuition and practice. Viffer on the other hand I doubt has read a book at all in the last 20 years.
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