.

beating ivey hu to win a bracelet seems like a pretty decent way to silence ones critics. bravo sir

Did you even read my post? I literally just said, the better a player is the more likely it is that they'll win live tournies. Quit making everything black and white, there's a continuum.

Succeeding over 1-2 years in the live arena doesn't necessarily mean you're a great player. It probably means you at least have a decent positive ROI in the games you're playing, but you might not be any better than half the other guys in the field. Succeeding over 5, 10, or 20 years is quite obviously a different matter, so comparing Ivey or Hellmuth's record to Frankenberger's is obviously ****ing ******ed, which is the reason I didn't do it.

You can never state anything with absolute certainty in poker, but it doesn't take much of a leap to say that those players who have succeeded over the longest time against the toughest fields are likely to be the best players. Similarly, those who have succeeded greatly over a short period like Frankenberger are likely to at least be competent, but you really cannot deduce anything at all from 47 tournaments. There are probably hundreds of online and live players out there who would be entirely capable of replicating Frankenberger's results if they ran good enough, and there are probably thousands of recreational players who would **** it up even if they did run good enough.

I'm not saying Frankenberger is a terrible player or whatever. I'm just saying that his results indicate nothing more than he probably has a positive ROI in the games he's playing. We have to use other info to deduce his ability, and that info (coming from hands he's played on TV) doesn't do him any favours.

only if the critics are as dumb as you. it was a 25bb hu match, winning it means quite literally nothing

Since tournies often come down to this scenario I guess that means ______.

They should consider putting an Andy Frankenburger on the menu at the BK Whopper Bar.

Didn't really expect this from a 2007 reg date like yourself. You might want to venture outside of NVG.

I never set foot in NVG until last year!! That was when the BF mess happened.

You filled in the blank!!!!

This post and others I made IIT was in response to all those that said AF winning meant nothing. I was saying that if his win meant nothing than using the same criteria many if not most wins mean nothing. It was not meant as my actual opinion. There have been some very good posts as well, some in response to my posts.

I understand the variance of tournies which is why I play mostly cash games. Getting a player to over raise me and put all his money in with AKo vs my KK near the bubble at the Aussie Millions and me having no outs on the flop and thereby crippling me and then building my stack up a bit and losing a flip just a few players from the bubble brought me so much joy. Yet I don't begrudge AF his good fortune because he conducts himself well.

One other note on playing live. There is a lot of information you can get from seeing your opponents. Watching AF play the final table, and it is the only time I have seen him play, it doesn't seem like this is a strength of his. Although he did give off a nice reverse tell but I do not know if it was on purpose.

fyp

fyp

ignore all the haters even though i am one

lmfao.. I thought this was a joke at first.. then I watched the video.. wtf..

Pretty sure there were a couple of posts like this ITT, and I'm curious where they're coming from. He seems very humble and likeable in the post bracelet win interview as well as the video poker one; has he been a real ass elsewhere?

Also, while the 2 RFs in 10 hands is pretty cool, it's not quite as unlikely as it sounds, once you realize it was 10 hands at a time and he was dealt 4 to a Royal.

touche'

so do most wsop events, you just aget a bracelet but for some reason a lot of people define these events as who is the best when it is clearly not the case.

Frankenburger is on fire though. He plays unorthodox and weird but he has to be doing something right to get the results he is getting.

Same reason these people always spout bile, jealousy/inadequacy..

Frankenberger isn't even near Ivey in terms of skill, any fish can win one tourney, it was 25bb or less HU match, Ivey would take all of Frankenberger's money in the long run playing multiple HU matches against him, etc. C'mon we know this. The guy has a unique style, he runs really awesome, he isn't the best in poker but does enough to win. Is it fair he wins more than others that are better than him? No. That is tournament poker variance for you. /thread.

Is Ivey as good as he was?

Frankenberger clearly has an unorthodox style and might be good or might be terrible. He did outplay Ivey HU. This is clear too. In the long run most of us (NVG micro donks and hi-rolling visitors alike) doubt that he would do this most of the time. So he might be a fish.

But

Is Ivey as good as he was?

Or is he just running goog at the WSOP 2012?

lol the bold text means it is 100% true right?

"outplaying" ivey with a 25bb stack is something i feel i could do (on a good day) given the chance.

Here's how he does it apparently:

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/94782...and-poker.html

He's making a run in WSOP 1k. 175 left. From PokerNews:

*
Frankenberger Doubles a Short Stack
*
Andy Frankenberger opened for 2,500 from the hijack and action folded to a short-stacked Gabriel Torres in the big blind. He looked down at his own stack and decided it was the moment to commit. Frankenbergerasked for a count, which turned out to be 5,400 total, and then made the call.

Showdown
Frankenberger:
Torres:

"Wow, you got it goodm" Frankeberger said after seeing they shared a six. The paired Torres, while the turn left Frankeberger drawing dead. "One of my favorite hands is 8-6," Frankenberger said after the was put out on the river. "Not in that spot," he added.

Andy Frankenberger 37,000 1,600
Gabriel Torres

Guy must be doing something right, whether it's something that we can put a finger on or not.

gg for andy, he finished 166th/2795 and takes a very brief lead on the player of the year standings

1 Andy Frankenberger 384.66
2 Phil Ivey 383.55
3 John Monnette 319.50

the guy certainly has some natural talent, but shipping donkaments still comes down to catching cards. He's obv quite good at the latter.

variance