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 06-11-2012, 03:09 PM #301 PeteBlow Carpal \'Tunnel   Join Date: May 2012 Location: Guildford, UK Posts: 12,559 Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it? So, basically, he's the opposite of Hellmuth. If luck wasn't involved, he'd win them all. If luck wasn't involved, he'd win nothing.
 06-11-2012, 03:17 PM #302 spacegod journeyman     Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Lazytown Posts: 371 Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it? It's amazing that so many people still don't understand how poker works. How many donkaments has this guy played lifetime? 150-200? And LULZ at being vvv serious about the outcome of a 20bb HU match.
06-11-2012, 03:25 PM   #303
Land Of The Free?
old hand

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,695
Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by JCHAK Lol, this post demonstrates how exploitable people like you are; you just used an absolute when talking about poker strategy: "Always an optimal line." Anytime a player "always" does something with a partiular holding in a situation they become exploitable. Poker isn't a game of mathematical certainty because the variables are infinite and can be assigned different values, everything from bluffs shown to the additional amount on the line for Phil with his bracelet bets etc.. Perhaps online when your sample size is in the millions and players tend to be more robotic one can be more profitable taking a mathematical odds approach to the game, but this was live, heads up for the title and Andy schooled Phil, who imo, played poorly and spewed badly. Calling a check raise and then checking after whiffing the river is lol bad.. Andy confused Phil with his play obv, Phil thought Andy had the nuts when he checked not being able to beat a K high, was that optimal? Was it optimal calling acheck raise on the turn not getting proper immediate odds and then checking after whiffing??? No, it wasn't optimal but here you sit bagging on the guy who won. lulz to the haters.
Thanks for making my point...I guess you don't know what the word "context" means either. That's what happens when you only understand 1/2 the sentences you read, I said "Always an optimal line in any defined context given a certain clearly defined objective".

Context is everything you described and a lot lot more, context is all the available information you're able to pick up. Logically, in any clearly defined environment there is always an optimal line given a certain objective, yes.

People like you will always be profitable because they have incredibly weak reasoning skills and process information in a more emotional way than a menoposal female baboon does.

In b4 PC police, "misogynist" blah blah blah...

edit: Saddest part of this is that I'm sure you still don't see how your interpretation of what I said was a huge logic fail.

Last edited by Land Of The Free?; 06-11-2012 at 03:40 PM.

 06-11-2012, 03:29 PM #304 stem the tide newbie   Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 47 Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it? PH vs AF one time please. If Phil could hold his tongue I would reevaluate my opinion of him
 06-11-2012, 03:30 PM #305 fanapathy Outside the Box     Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: dilarang tandas Posts: 2,760 Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it? This guy is being judged from literally 2-3 hands. The QQ fold might as well have been a PR stunt. There's no way to know this. He tanked with that hand. Do you know what he was thinking? What if he was thinking "What happens if I fold in this ridiculous spot?" If he was actually up against AA/KK, it sort of looks cool (even if it's technically the wrong fold) If he calls, it's a standard normal hand that no one cares about, regardless what he's up against If he folds...well look what happened. Obviously these are random speculations, but again, you're judging a massively successful player on a couple of televised hands in an irrelevant event. This is a smart guy.
06-11-2012, 03:40 PM   #306
noreallyimfine
enthusiast

Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 97
Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by fanapathy This guy is being judged from literally 2-3 hands. The QQ fold might as well have been a PR stunt. There's no way to know this. He tanked with that hand. Do you know what he was thinking? What if he was thinking "What happens if I fold in this ridiculous spot?" If he was actually up against AA/KK, it sort of looks cool (even if it's technically the wrong fold) If he calls, it's a standard normal hand that no one cares about, regardless what he's up against If he folds...well look what happened. Obviously these are random speculations, but again, you're judging a massively successful player on a couple of televised hands in an irrelevant event. This is a smart guy.
this does not seem to follow the rules of Occam's Razor...

 06-11-2012, 03:56 PM #307 rayfox111 adept   Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: N.W England Posts: 1,093 Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it? Never been a fan of vicious criticism, always reflects badly.
06-11-2012, 04:00 PM   #309
CBorders
Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: 25% RISK FREE
Posts: 16,509
Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by spacegod It's amazing that so many people still don't understand how poker works. How many donkaments has this guy played lifetime? 150-200? And LULZ at being vvv serious about the outcome of a 20bb HU match.
Logical explanations have no business in NVG.

06-11-2012, 04:09 PM   #310
dubwise
journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 393
Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Andy Frankenberger by the way, threads like this definitely get me fired up to try to play my best and win!! thank you for the added motivation -- i wish you all the very best on the felt and beyond
He would've never won if it wasn't for this thread, you guys woke up a monster

06-11-2012, 04:14 PM   #311
icantfoldsets
grinder

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Wherever I Have The Edge
Posts: 420
Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by spacegod It's amazing that so many people still don't understand how poker works. How many donkaments has this guy played lifetime? 150-200? And LULZ at being vvv serious about the outcome of a 20bb HU match.
He seems to do fine in WPT tournaments. And those are the opposite of donkaments.

06-11-2012, 04:23 PM   #312
JCHAK
old hand

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Inside the RNG
Posts: 1,273
Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Land Of The Free? Thanks for making my point...I guess you don't know what the word "context" means either. That's what happens when you only understand 1/2 the sentences you read, I said "Always an optimal line in any defined context given a certain clearly defined objective". Context is everything you described and a lot lot more, context is all the available information you're able to pick up. Logically, in any clearly defined environment there is always an optimal line given a certain objective, yes. People like you will always be profitable because they have incredibly weak reasoning skills and process information in a more emotional way than a menoposal female baboon does. In b4 PC police, "misogynist" blah blah blah... edit: Saddest part of this is that I'm sure you still don't see how your interpretation of what I said was a huge logic fail.
You are a misogynist.

The bolded part above shows your complete lack of understanding of the complexities involved in the equation NLHE: clearly defined situation??? Maybe for you playing against your brother in law, who you taught to play a couple af months ago, playing complete ABC poker with a 20BB stack you can clearly see an "optimal" line, but the variables and factors involved in a complex deeper stacked HU match for a WSOP bracelet, where one player has much more on the line than another and is a clear favorite, consist of more than pushing the action against a weaker player. Good players adapt and make their opponents play suboptimally by chaninging their ranges, style etc. The entire purpose of metagame is to convolude the situation entirely thereby inhibiting your opponent's ability to play optimally against you. In this regard Frankenburger outplayed Ivey who was always guessing wtf was going as was evident by folding to AF's 4 bet and not bluffing him off the river when AF held K high.

EDIT: My logic is flawless and you are stuck in an exploitable paradigm.

Last edited by JCHAK; 06-11-2012 at 04:34 PM.

 06-11-2012, 04:27 PM #313 icantfoldsets grinder     Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Wherever I Have The Edge Posts: 420 Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it? Sorry I started an "optimal line" debate in an NVG thread
06-11-2012, 04:34 PM   #314
Land Of The Free?
old hand

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,695
Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by JCHAK You are a misogynist. The bolded part above shows your complete lack of understanding in the complex equation NLHE: clearly defined situation??? Maybe for you playing against a weak player, who's playing complete ABC poker with a 20BB stack you can clearly see an "optimal" line, but the variables and factors involved in a complex deeper stacked HU match for a WSOP bracelet, where one player has much more on the line than another and is a clear favorite, consist of more than pushing the action against a weaker player. Good players adapt and make their opponents play suboptimally by chaninging their ranges etc. The entire purpose of metagame is to convolude the situation entirely thereby inhibiting your opponent's ability to play optimally against you. In this regard Frankenburger outplayed Ivey who was always guessing wtf was going as was evident by folding to AF's 4 bet and not bluffing him off the river when AF held K high. EDIT: My logic is flawless and you are stuck in an exploitable paradigm.
You're so dumb I give up. GL in life, you'll need a lot of it.

 06-11-2012, 04:36 PM #315 davem92025 banned   Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 295 Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it? he obv sucks a lot of ****
 06-11-2012, 04:36 PM #316 pokerthief banned     Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: no man's land Posts: 130 Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it? i ****** hate this luckbox frankendonker.
06-11-2012, 04:37 PM   #317
KimFraserAye
banned

Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 40
Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by pokerthief i ****** hate this luckbox frankendonker.
lol

06-11-2012, 04:45 PM   #318
JCHAK
old hand

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Inside the RNG
Posts: 1,273
Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Land Of The Free? You're so dumb I give up. GL in life, you'll need a lot of it.
= Obvious end result.

After failing to understand somewhat complex concepts and converse about them in a civil manner, opponent "Land Of The Free?" results to name calling and condescenion: basically folding his hand.

Good fold. In this situation, being completely outmatched, it was the optimal line for you to take.

Now take your remaining chips and leave the casino.

06-11-2012, 05:14 PM   #319
austin035
newbie

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Revere, Ma
Posts: 36
Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Andy Frankenberger A friend of mine just told me about this thread. You guys crack me up. I realize that many people would rather watch a hand where I make a poor decision than a good one, but if you're at all curious about how I took a non-standard line to win a critical pot HU and win the Premiere League Mixed Champ, feel free to watch the link below to my A9 hand, starting at minute 4:05: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6fbGSrdBOM Best of luck to you all -- feel free to say hello if you see me at the WSOP. Maybe I can continue to flop joints and win another bracelet today
Bunch of u hating on this guy and what does he do? Just goes out and wins ANOTHER bracelet against probably one of the toughest fields of the WSOP this year, then owns the best player in the world HU... And all these jealous clowns still wanna hate. He's got more tournament poker chops over the last 2 yrs than any of you clowns ever will. Haters, keep hatin. Andy, keep winning bracelets and enjoy the financial freedom it affords you to continue to be competitive at the top of the poker world.

06-11-2012, 05:45 PM   #320
integratyper777
grinder

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: You consider pro poker, living??
Posts: 440
Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by brrrraat OBV it's not all pure luck. The players you mentioned have stood the test of time for the last 5-7 years. It's not out of the realm of possibilities that a bad player can run hot for 1,000 mtts in 3 years and then brick for the rest of his life whereas 1,000 mtts online would be like 2 weeks for an pro grinder. So that pro would be running good for 2 weeks not 3 years lol.
I challenge anybody to play 1,000 MTTs in real life in 3 years.

Good luck...

FWIW - I don't personally have much love for his game but I can appreciate the ride he's on and feel happy/good for him. I think it's cool and great for the game that he's doing what he's doing. Anybody that is mad/upset/pissed is more than anything jealous, and I think in that aspect, our community can be real ****ty sometimes.

Imo, nice guy, probably great off the felt and trustworthy, stand up, and hey, he's winning. What's wrong with that? I think anybody who has a problem with it has misplaced emotions, and that there'll be some really happy high stakes cash players if they ever talk him into the game.

He openly doesn't claim to be a top level pro or anything - and knows he's not the best there is. I don't think anybody is saying that.

Does that mean that if he just waits for really good hands, and plays really big pots and forces good players into flips that he can't curb their skill edge? Not at all. And frankly, for his skill level, he plays a very good strategy from a logic point of view.

my two cents.

 06-11-2012, 05:59 PM #321 Hoverroundon22s grinder   Join Date: May 2011 Location: the grand canyon! Posts: 456 Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it? I like monster mash potatoes with my frankenburger
 06-11-2012, 06:09 PM #322 Dr. D'Lite centurion   Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 107 Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it? hes Bi-Winning he wins here and he wins there
 06-11-2012, 06:14 PM #323 SrslySirius Animated Character     Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 4,295 Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it? Frankenberger tries out video poker one day and hits 2 royals in about 10 hands. Also talks about catching 2 foul balls in a single Red Sox game. Confirmed wizard. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMrbVDXWHcE
06-11-2012, 06:21 PM   #324
slevin90
banned

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Sweden
Posts: 2,151
Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by SrslySirius Frankenberger tries out video poker one day and hits 2 royals in about 10 hands. Also talks about catching 2 foul balls in a single Red Sox game. Confirmed wizard. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMrbVDXWHcE
Wow, this donk is on a MASSIVE heater!

06-11-2012, 06:22 PM   #325
integratyper777
grinder

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: You consider pro poker, living??
Posts: 440
Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by SrslySirius Frankenberger tries out video poker one day and hits 2 royals in about 10 hands. Also talks about catching 2 foul balls in a single Red Sox game. Confirmed wizard. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMrbVDXWHcE
Super... sick.

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