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Old 05-31-2012, 03:38 AM   #1
ineedacoach
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How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

Andy Frankenberger was WPT player of the year last year, has won a WSOP bracelet and recently won the Partypoker world championship or whatever it was called. Yet when I watch him, he seems to make so many mistakes, seemingly every hand. The famous QQ fold he made remains the worst play I've ever seen on televised poker and numerous other bizarre and awful plays have been well documented.

So how does he keep doing well? Just now, he's in the final 8 of the HU NL/PLO event and has made some more WPT final tables. Is it really just running like God?
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Old 05-31-2012, 03:45 AM   #2
AshleyC
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

Variance - lol donkaments
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Old 05-31-2012, 04:08 AM   #3
shinja59
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

I read the transcripts for the preliminary heats of this year's Premier League (hole cards were revealed) and it seems he might actually have some intuition regarding postflop play. Granted that one hand versus Sorel Mizzi where he flopped trips with A7s was just painful to watch (I won't even get into the QQ fold) but he seems to basically be the epitome of a feel player and despite his horrific fundamentals might just have some strong poker instincts that allow him to be, maybe not truly dangerous like a Blom or a Moorman but certainly very annoying to play against at the poker table.

That said he's clearly running absurdly well in order to make up for his massive -EV spews, but generally when you play very aggressively and very unorthodox you'll often be able to accumulate a ton of chips. I remember people gave Faraz Jaka **** for playing so spazzy but after a certain point it really can't be a coincidence that Jaka keeps consistently final tabling events. Obviously Jaka is almost certainly way better than Frankenberger and variance is a powerful enough force that Frankenberger could literally be a total fish on a 3+ year heater, but I also wouldn't say its impossible that Frankenberger is in a similar category as Jaka.
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Old 05-31-2012, 04:15 AM   #4
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shinja59 View Post
but I also wouldn't say its impossible that Frankenberger is in a similar category as Jaka.
I kinda doubt that. Jaka is really aggressive and, in terms of pre flop aggression, is more or less the best there is.
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Old 05-31-2012, 04:32 AM   #5
AllBlackDan
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

Pure luck, just like any donkament run gooder eg Selbst, Elky, Mercier et al
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Old 05-31-2012, 05:11 AM   #6
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

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Pure luck, just like any donkament run gooder eg Selbst, Elky, Mercier et al
OBV it's not all pure luck. The players you mentioned have stood the test of time for the last 5-7 years. It's not out of the realm of possibilities that a bad player can run hot for 1,000 mtts in 3 years and then brick for the rest of his life whereas 1,000 mtts online would be like 2 weeks for an pro grinder. So that pro would be running good for 2 weeks not 3 years lol.
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Old 05-31-2012, 05:58 AM   #7
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

What's the QQ hand or the A7?
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Old 05-31-2012, 06:42 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AshleyC View Post
Variance - lol donkaments
+1
dont mean to be just another hater, but I have played with him a bit and I am not impressed with his play

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllBlackDan View Post
Pure luck, just like any donkament run gooder eg Selbst, Elky, Mercier et al
Selbst actually plays rly well and people react poorly to her style. That being said, she does run hotter than the sun. cant rly comment on the other's games

Last edited by SGT RJ; 05-31-2012 at 11:54 AM.
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Old 05-31-2012, 08:22 AM   #9
Bobo Fett
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

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What's the QQ hand or the A7?
I had no idea either, so I...

Spoiler:
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Old 05-31-2012, 09:01 AM   #10
huntse
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

On the other hand, Frankenberger also made Andrew Feldman cry like a baby on tv.
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Old 05-31-2012, 09:21 AM   #11
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

lol donkaments would be the short answer to OP's question I think.

Good thread here (with youtube links) about Frankenberger's questionable plays.

The man himself even posted to defend his play

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/37...ntary-1177526/
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Old 05-31-2012, 09:24 AM   #12
ab160
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shinja59 View Post
I read the transcripts for the preliminary heats of this year's Premier League (hole cards were revealed) and it seems he might actually have some intuition regarding postflop play. Granted that one hand versus Sorel Mizzi where he flopped trips with A7s was just painful to watch (I won't even get into the QQ fold) but he seems to basically be the epitome of a feel player and despite his horrific fundamentals might just have some strong poker instincts that allow him to be, maybe not truly dangerous like a Blom or a Moorman but certainly very annoying to play against at the poker table.

That said he's clearly running absurdly well in order to make up for his massive -EV spews, but generally when you play very aggressively and very unorthodox you'll often be able to accumulate a ton of chips. I remember people gave Faraz Jaka **** for playing so spazzy but after a certain point it really can't be a coincidence that Jaka keeps consistently final tabling events. Obviously Jaka is almost certainly way better than Frankenberger and variance is a powerful enough force that Frankenberger could literally be a total fish on a 3+ year heater, but I also wouldn't say its impossible that Frankenberger is in a similar category as Jaka.
Good post- you should do it more!
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Old 05-31-2012, 09:37 AM   #13
h88t_you
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

Just saw A7 hand lol, guy is absolutely clueless
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:10 AM   #14
oojoe24oo
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

its ****ing live tournament poker - the variance is insane - you always see guys come and go - rarely do you see these names lasting 5+ years
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:22 AM   #15
SuperRu
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

I played Frankenberger in the 3k hu holdem/plo. Thought he was good. He's kind of like Selbst in the sense he's very talented but plays very splashy.
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Old 05-31-2012, 12:31 PM   #16
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperRu View Post
I played Frankenberger in the 3k hu holdem/plo. Thought he was good. He's kind of like Selbst in the sense he's very talented but plays very splashy.
Maybe its the selective editing on TV, but I've literally never seen to guy play "good" in any televised hand he's been involved in and I've watched them all. His game seems to revolve around constantly making -ev calls and flopping the joint.
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Old 05-31-2012, 01:00 PM   #17
Matt Glantz
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

It's is important to realize there are many different ways to win at poker. Most big winning players have sound fundamentals and take what are considered by most of us as 'standard' lines almost all the time. But there are other big winning poker players like Andy, Grinder, Hellmuth and Gus Hansen that come to mind. These players rarely take the 'standard' line and are successful due to things that are harder to quantify, but just as effective.

Whenever I see any of these guys make a play that I don't understand and it looks bad on its face, I always try to break it down and figure out what they were doing. Obviously everyone makes mistakes and sometimes the plays are just bad, but most of the time I wind up coming to a conclusion that further educates me about the game.
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Old 05-31-2012, 01:04 PM   #18
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

Can someone post a video of the QQ hand everyone is referring to?
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Old 05-31-2012, 01:18 PM   #19
ineedacoach
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKEV9ShxASU

Here it is. I'm sure you will all agree it's awful.
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Old 05-31-2012, 01:20 PM   #20
ZachL
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ineedacoach View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKEV9ShxASU

Here it is. I'm sure you will all agree it's awful.
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Old 05-31-2012, 01:21 PM   #21
joeyrulesall
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Fish on a heater??
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Old 05-31-2012, 01:27 PM   #22
SuperRu
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

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Originally Posted by Donk Lord View Post
Maybe its the selective editing on TV, but I've literally never seen to guy play "good" in any televised hand he's been involved in and I've watched them all. His game seems to revolve around constantly making -ev calls and flopping the joint.
Well, he's definitely splashy preflop and on the flop. But like I said, he has a lot of talent, he doesn't play fundamentally sound but can make up for it later. That being said, I didn't play with him that long so maybe my impression of him was off.
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Old 05-31-2012, 01:28 PM   #23
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ineedacoach View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKEV9ShxASU

Here it is. I'm sure you will all agree it's awful.
I almost started crying. He's obv a live player who's never really learned the game and always played by his feels. He thinks about the game but in his own (wrong) way. There are tons of these guys, just visit your local casino, one of them has to run good.
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Old 05-31-2012, 01:31 PM   #24
Josef
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ineedacoach View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKEV9ShxASU

Here it is. I'm sure you will all agree it's awful.
Is this just to piss Sorel off or something? Makes no sense.
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Old 05-31-2012, 01:46 PM   #25
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Re: How does Andy Frankenberger do it?

Fish on a MASSIVE heater.

Last edited by slevin90; 05-31-2012 at 01:51 PM. Reason: Wow this guy is so bad.
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