Hellmuth vs. Negreanu "High Stakes Duel 2" Confirmed - Page 18 - Poker News

Probably not the same people. It is really amazing that the "GTO solution" indicates Hellmuth played absolutely correct limping 99 is 7xBB on the final hand in which he induced Negreanu to shove 75s. 5 years ago everyone would think that was crazy.

I guess all the online kids convinced each other that if a chart said shoving was better than folding, anything but shoving was bad.

I am not convinced that the current GTO approach isn't going to be changed in 5 years. However, learning it is probably really valuable for most SNG and MTT players.

I was a mediocre hyper husng reg 5 years ago.
It was completely standard back then

Quote

04-26-2021 , 10:53 AM

#427

deuceblocker

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 3,383

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garlic yum

I was a mediocre hyper husng reg 5 years ago.
It was completely standard back then

OK, well maybe 10 years ago limping 99 with 7xBB would be considered donkish.

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04-26-2021 , 11:31 AM

#428

David Sklansky

Administrator

Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 17,090

The general admonition to raise or fold goes away when a limp is getting good odds. This should be common sense. All one needs to do to prove this to himself is contemplate how you would play if the blind on the button was $1.80.

Quote

04-26-2021 , 08:17 PM

#429

Dima2000123

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,520

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimpleRick

GTO is GTO. It's not meta, it's not something that is evolving or changing. The GTO solution is fixed and will not change.

Is "GTO" really GTO for NLHE games? My understanding is that you have to simplify the game in some way for the solver, such as giving yourself and your opponent only a fixed number of raise sizes for the decision trees. I don't know if someone looked into whether these shortcuts change the strategy materially, but in theory they could, so with a different set of shortcuts you can have a different concept of what "GTO" means.

Quote

04-26-2021 , 08:38 PM

#430

Ivey #1 Fan

banned

Join Date: Apr 2021 Posts: 158

If u guys escrow, 10k Daniel,

Quote

04-26-2021 , 08:41 PM

#431

rickroll

oddly catty

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 22,658

you realize you can bet it on pokershares

nobody is going to do a 10k bet with a week old account

Quote

04-26-2021 , 09:44 PM

#432

rickroll

oddly catty

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 22,658

pokershares has a 10k limit, go max that and fill timex's pockets, it's been a while since he's thrown a basketball gotta pay that rent

Quote

04-26-2021 , 09:57 PM

#433

deuceblocker

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 3,383

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Sklansky

HU, you have position postflop and are getting great pot odds preflop, which is why the current approach is to play almost all hands from the button / SB. Short stacked if you raise rather than limp, you lose much more when you raise/fold than limp/fold.

Quote

04-26-2021 , 11:08 PM

#434

Dima2000123

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,520

Is there any reason why the button is on the SB preflop when you play HU? With any other number of players, SB is always guaranteed to be out of position, and yet for HU SB gets both great limp pot odds as well as position after the flop.

Quote

04-27-2021 , 05:05 AM

#435

Mat Cauthon

adept

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,147

It induces wider ranges for both players; more dynamic play, and more rake to the game provider. Win-win.

Quote

04-27-2021 , 12:16 PM

#436

Ivey #1 Fan

banned

Join Date: Apr 2021 Posts: 158

I know Daniel can do this. No clue about hand ranges, percentages or analytics. He is a very cool guy and I believe 100 percent in him. Just like Ivey and Jason, certain pros are just so cool, you gotta love them!!!!

Quote

05-05-2021 , 08:59 PM

#437

Ab.Bad

newbie

Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 44

Anyone got updates?

Quote

05-05-2021 , 09:15 PM

#438

whatwonder

Poker Agent

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 869

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ab.Bad

Anyone got updates?

Ali wants to discuss the prices of macadamia nuts vs. cashews; Nick is in a ~mood~ and gets upset with Ali for trying to discuss any topic outside of the match; Daniel is constantly whistling and humming "Never Gonna Give You Up" by Rick Astley.

Quote

05-05-2021 , 09:39 PM

#439

Joe-exotic69

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 1,302

Dnegs talking like he’s the Gto master, like stfu no one wants to hear ur stupid gto is sooo good speeches

Quote

05-05-2021 , 09:44 PM

#440

parisron

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 19,763

1st 45 minutes for those like me that cancelled.

Quote

05-05-2021 , 09:56 PM

#441

Ab.Bad

newbie

Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 44

Yeah I saw the first 30mins. Nothing too interesting popped up, hellmuth made some hands and negs was attempting to steal a couple of medium to small pots, unsuccessfully.

Quote

05-06-2021 , 12:10 AM

#442

Ab.Bad

newbie

Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 44

Can anyone provide an update of the match?

Quote

05-06-2021 , 12:32 AM

#443

DirtyMike

stranger

Join Date: Nov 2019 Posts: 3

It's been back and forth with Neagreanu ahead most of the match. Pretty much dead even now with 100k stacks each at 1k/2k

Quote

05-06-2021 , 12:40 AM

#444

WiCane

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,961

Negs is awful.

Quote

05-06-2021 , 12:41 AM

#445

DirtyMike

stranger

Join Date: Nov 2019 Posts: 3

Hellmuth 3bet and triples T2s and gets Negreanu to fold winner on the river. Helmuth with a 3-1 lead now

Quote

05-06-2021 , 12:46 AM

#446

WiCane

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,961

Hellmuth wins match. Ah4 > 88 pre for 107K pot, comes 4 hearts.

Quote

05-06-2021 , 12:51 AM

#447

Ab.Bad

newbie

Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 44

Thanks guys appreciate it!

Quote

05-06-2021 , 01:26 AM

#448

Ivanka2024

enthusiast

Join Date: Mar 2021 Posts: 72

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivanka2024

after learning some low level heuristics, math doesn't matter anymore

yes i understand the irony of quoting this after such a small sample

Last edited by Ivanka2024; 05-06-2021 at 01:28 AM. Reason: this is referring to the odds dengs was offering on open market

Quote

05-06-2021 , 03:29 AM

#449

Carnivore

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 8,226

Apex Predator.

Quote

05-06-2021 , 04:38 AM

#450

ChristianT

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,810

Two notes:

1) Phil winning ALL of these live HU matches over the last three years is just epic, say what you will

2) Most composed and normal I've ever seen Phil H playing poker

"Can't beat the man" summed it up

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