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Haralabos Voulgaris hired by the Dallas Mavs Haralabos Voulgaris hired by the Dallas Mavs

06-17-2021 , 11:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoadingitUP
Nelson has every right to be upset about the situation with Bob. I like him and he's a smart guy, but that doesn't mean he knows how to build or get the most out of basketball teams. The Nelson family is legendary and actually has success in the NBA, what's Bob accomplished in the NBA besides being good on betting on it before he got there?
I don't think it's a secret that Cuban hasn't been happy at all about the last decade since winning the title and that they couldn't field a competitive team for Dirk's last years even though he was willing to leave a lot of money on the table for that.

Don Nelson's split was somewhat ugly back in the day and Donnie would have been canned at least 2 years ago if not for selling the team on Luca.
Luca being eligible for that supermax extension is a crazy good selling point for the Mavs that make a split highly unlikely.

Bob's probably difficult to deal with but what's happening in Dallas now would most likely have happened anyway even if Bob wasn't around.
Haralabos Voulgaris hired by the Dallas Mavs Quote
06-17-2021 , 11:53 AM
LuKa
Haralabos Voulgaris hired by the Dallas Mavs Quote
06-17-2021 , 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yimyammer
+ Bob is hilarious, I'm sure that bodes well for him in some capacity

His response to Fredy Deep when Freddy wanted to fight him had me laughing so damn hard my sides cramped up

Spoiler:
IIRC, without missing a beat, Bob said sorry Freddy, I don't fight anyone under 5 feet tall and over 50, he told it on one of the old PokerRoad podcasts in case anyone knows how to bring those up
I remember this because it came up spontaneously and was so funny - the host asked about the situation and Bob explained how he and Deeb got into it. Then explained if Deeb wanted to throw down he had to fight.

Host: Why would you have to fight?
Bob: The 50/50 rule
Host: What's the 50/50 rule?
Bob: If someone is over 50 and under 5 feet tall, you have to fight
Haralabos Voulgaris hired by the Dallas Mavs Quote
06-17-2021 , 12:46 PM
Bob's interview with Joey was like, exceptionally boring for a guy who's achieved so much success in an intellectual field. Not surprised he didn't go over well with the NBA personnel. Can't just sort by winshare or netrating and expect that to go over well with people in the industry, plus it's not even a good strategy. (edit: last sentence is metaphorical)

Last edited by RunningIsNotAnOptn; 06-17-2021 at 12:53 PM.
Haralabos Voulgaris hired by the Dallas Mavs Quote
06-17-2021 , 04:37 PM
Bob must be untouchable:

Rick Carlisle says he won't return as Dallas Mavericks coach after 13 seasons

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...ach-13-seasons
Haralabos Voulgaris hired by the Dallas Mavs Quote
06-17-2021 , 05:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by madlex
I don't think it's a secret that Cuban hasn't been happy at all about the last decade since winning the title and that they couldn't field a competitive team for Dirk's last years even though he was willing to leave a lot of money on the table for that.

Don Nelson's split was somewhat ugly back in the day and Donnie would have been canned at least 2 years ago if not for selling the team on Luca.
Luca being eligible for that supermax extension is a crazy good selling point for the Mavs that make a split highly unlikely.

Bob's probably difficult to deal with but what's happening in Dallas now would most likely have happened anyway even if Bob wasn't around.
Well he did also sell Cuban on Giannis and Cuban refused and they end up drafting Kelly Olynyk instead. Hard to find many GM's more respected over last 20+ years. Wouldn't be surprised if Donnie wasn't going to bend anymore and here we are.

Also in the Athletic story, the image they evoke of Bob sitting courtside with a laptop is pretty lol. To actually manage to alienate Luka is pretty amazing, and the article definitely seemed like it was someone from his camp sending a message to Cuban, don't bring this guy back. But Luka seemingly doesn't get along with anyone so maybe firing Carlisle was a middle ground.
Haralabos Voulgaris hired by the Dallas Mavs Quote
06-17-2021 , 05:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoadingitUP
Nelson has every right to be upset about the situation with Bob. I like him and he's a smart guy, but that doesn't mean he knows how to build or get the most out of basketball teams. The Nelson family is legendary and actually has success in the NBA, what's Bob accomplished in the NBA besides being good on betting on it before he got there? They are only even relevant because they have Luka, the team would be nothing without him. Cuban has lost the plot as of late though, so I'm sure he will run Luka out.

TLDR; Good guy and smart guy doesn't =good NBA guy that should be making personal decisions.
Oh yes the legendary families in sports that always get jobs because of reputation. Bob is one of if not the best basketball sports bettor ever, and was years in front of all of the analytic guys in the nba on strategy. He is far more fit than nelson to handle the modern nba
Haralabos Voulgaris hired by the Dallas Mavs Quote
06-17-2021 , 05:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balbomb
Oh yes the legendary families in sports that always get jobs because of reputation. Bob is one of if not the best basketball sports bettor ever, and was years in front of all of the analytic guys in the nba on strategy. He is far more fit than nelson to handle the modern nba
What does betting on the NBA have to do with managing a team? Dirk and Luka both were because of Nelson. I have no issue with Bob getting a shot to do more at some point, but Nelson is why they won a championship.... People on here seem to be blind to how good Nelson was because Bob is one of us. What's going on in Dallas is going to cost them a player that is going to be HOF great. Bob may do great, but imploding a pretty good organization because of him isn't the play. There is way more to sports than analytics and if you're an ******* it doesn't matter how smart you are. The Nelsons didn't get jobs because of a good ol' boys club, they are very good basketball guys.
Haralabos Voulgaris hired by the Dallas Mavs Quote
06-17-2021 , 06:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoadingitUP
What does betting on the NBA have to do with managing a team? Dirk and Luka both were because of Nelson. I have no issue with Bob getting a shot to do more at some point, but Nelson is why they won a championship.... People on here seem to be blind to how good Nelson was because Bob is one of us. What's going on in Dallas is going to cost them a player that is going to be HOF great. Bob may do great, but imploding a pretty good organization because of him isn't the play. There is way more to sports than analytics and if you're an ******* it doesn't matter how smart you are. The Nelsons didn't get jobs because of a good ol' boys club, they are very good basketball guys.
Donnie may be good, maybe he was good and no longer is. I hear a lot about how good Carlisle is too, but the fact of the matter is since they went on a somewhat unlikely title run 10 years ago on the back of Dirk, the best they have finished in the West is 5th, which was once this year. Most years they have been a 7 or 8 seed. They missed the playoffs 4 of the 10 years and haven't been out of the first round since. They have not sniffed being a top half of the league type of team since. 10 years to have the same guys in charge and getting that in return. Does that sound like excellence? Looking over their last 10 years of draft picks the only guy that even plays outside of Luka is Brunson, who is a backup PG. They need to make some moves and build around Luka before he says **** this **** and leaves.
Haralabos Voulgaris hired by the Dallas Mavs Quote
06-17-2021 , 06:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoadingitUP
What does betting on the NBA have to do with managing a team? Dirk and Luka both were because of Nelson. I have no issue with Bob getting a shot to do more at some point, but Nelson is why they won a championship.... People on here seem to be blind to how good Nelson was because Bob is one of us. What's going on in Dallas is going to cost them a player that is going to be HOF great. Bob may do great, but imploding a pretty good organization because of him isn't the play. There is way more to sports than analytics and if you're an ******* it doesn't matter how smart you are. The Nelsons didn't get jobs because of a good ol' boys club, they are very good basketball guys.
There's a lot of great things to say about the Nelsons. And about Donnie specifically, obviously Dirk and Luka. Winning one title in 25 years might not be a very strong argument though. That's basically just ahead of statistical expectation.

Not sure what player you're talking about that they are losing, but Luka already said that he's going to sign the supermax extension. I highly doubt they would have canned Donnie before that was a done deal. What Carlisle's departure does to that will be seen.

To your last point: Are you seriously saying that Donnie Nelson would have gotten any of those jobs without his dad? The only NBA job he ever got without his dad already being employed there: assistant coach of the Suns for two years in the 90s. At every other job (Bucks, Warriors, Mavs) his dad was head coach. His career is a prime example for nepotism.
Haralabos Voulgaris hired by the Dallas Mavs Quote
06-17-2021 , 06:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franchise5
Donnie may be good, maybe he was good and no longer is. I hear a lot about how good Carlisle is too, but the fact of the matter is since they went on a somewhat unlikely title run 10 years ago on the back of Dirk, the best they have finished in the West is 5th, which was once this year. Most years they have been a 7 or 8 seed. They missed the playoffs 4 of the 10 years and haven't been out of the first round since. They have not sniffed being a top half of the league type of team since. 10 years to have the same guys in charge and getting that in return. Does that sound like excellence? Looking over their last 10 years of draft picks the only guy that even plays outside of Luka is Brunson, who is a backup PG. They need to make some moves and build around Luka before he says **** this **** and leaves.
I don't disagree with making a change, but if it's because of Bob I do a little more than I would. How many teams have a HOF player retire and are good immediately after?(or on his way out?) Particularly in the west which has been stacked during that time frame? Donnie may very well not be good any more, I'm sure we'll see as he'll get a job immediately if he wants it, same with Carlisle. An 8th seed in the west most of the last decade was many games over .500. There was a few years where the 8th seed was like a 3/4 in the East.
Haralabos Voulgaris hired by the Dallas Mavs Quote
06-17-2021 , 08:02 PM
Cuban is lucky to have Voulgaris, he will be the get them a championship within 5 years.
Haralabos Voulgaris hired by the Dallas Mavs Quote
06-18-2021 , 04:30 AM
I'm pretty sure KOC already reported a few days ago that Bob and the Mavs were parting ways too
Haralabos Voulgaris hired by the Dallas Mavs Quote
06-18-2021 , 07:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom 35
Well he did also sell Cuban on Giannis and Cuban refused and they end up drafting Kelly Olynyk instead. Hard to find many GM's more respected over last 20+ years. Wouldn't be surprised if Donnie wasn't going to bend anymore and here we are.

Also in the Athletic story, the image they evoke of Bob sitting courtside with a laptop is pretty lol. To actually manage to alienate Luka is pretty amazing, and the article definitely seemed like it was someone from his camp sending a message to Cuban, don't bring this guy back. But Luka seemingly doesn't get along with anyone so maybe firing Carlisle was a middle ground.
Him valuing Giannis and Luka basically reflects that he caught on earlier than the rest of the NBA that there was a lot of talent overseas going to waste and that euroleague was way stronger than NCAA. By now nearly everyone else has caught on, and so that insight isn't worth so much by itself.
Haralabos Voulgaris hired by the Dallas Mavs Quote
06-18-2021 , 07:39 AM
Analytics guys would improve the tactical and roster decisions of almost all professional sporting teams

As a much lower level full time sports bettor than Haralabob i'm pretty sure I could improve a ton of teams equity by 1+ win a season in a ton of different sporting codes he's probably worth multiple wins a season to the Mavs long term which at that level of sport is huge
Haralabos Voulgaris hired by the Dallas Mavs Quote
06-18-2021 , 07:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwoopAE
Analytics guys would improve the tactical and roster decisions of almost all professional sporting teams

As a much lower level full time sports bettor than Haralabob i'm pretty sure I could improve a ton of teams equity by 1+ win a season in a ton of different sporting codes he's probably worth multiple wins a season to the Mavs long term which at that level of sport is huge
I guess the question is whether or not you can improve the equity without taking away anything. A sports team is a big living organization with a million inputs; you can go in and change one input to be something clearly better, but it's not always immediately clear what the effect on other inputs would be.

I was/am really into hockey analytics and a "the people part will work itself out when you start winning" until I started working with a team (nowhere near NHL level don't worry). Once you do, you start realizing issues related to individual human motivation when you treat players like a spreadsheet entry. It was really eye opening to me.

The human side of communicating the benefits of analytics is by and large lost on the people doing analytics study; especially gamblers who are accustomed to answering every argument with (in essence) "listen or don't listen, I'll do it my way and end up with a positive result in the long run whether you agree or not."
Haralabos Voulgaris hired by the Dallas Mavs Quote
06-18-2021 , 08:32 AM
Yeah I mean obv Haralabob and analytics guys should be communicating primarily to the coach or whoever the players respect to pass the info along; then they communicate those concepts to the players

The amount of outright -EV plays that happen in pretty much every major sport though it's something that professional sports franchises should be addressing through analysis
Haralabos Voulgaris hired by the Dallas Mavs Quote
06-18-2021 , 11:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by formula72
Just so it's known, you can easily break the law and commit crimes while working for anyone or doing anything. If you literally can't fathom simple avenues on how to do so under the radar than you are a special type of stupid - like all those guys in jail.
FYP
Haralabos Voulgaris hired by the Dallas Mavs Quote
06-18-2021 , 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punker
I guess the question is whether or not you can improve the equity without taking away anything. A sports team is a big living organization with a million inputs; you can go in and change one input to be something clearly better, but it's not always immediately clear what the effect on other inputs would be.

I was/am really into hockey analytics and a "the people part will work itself out when you start winning" until I started working with a team (nowhere near NHL level don't worry). Once you do, you start realizing issues related to individual human motivation when you treat players like a spreadsheet entry. It was really eye opening to me.

The human side of communicating the benefits of analytics is by and large lost on the people doing analytics study; especially gamblers who are accustomed to answering every argument with (in essence) "listen or don't listen, I'll do it my way and end up with a positive result in the long run whether you agree or not."

My line of thinking as well. I'm a stats guy in my career outside of poker and it gets in the way of the people side sometimes for sure.
Haralabos Voulgaris hired by the Dallas Mavs Quote
06-18-2021 , 10:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by madlex
Bob's probably difficult to deal with but what's happening in Dallas now would most likely have happened anyway even if Bob wasn't around.
He may be but I think there's a decent chance long term NBA'rs like Nelson & Carlisle (& perhaps others) are arrogant and dismissive of some interloper-gambler entering into their world so Bob probably has to be pretty forceful and outspoken in order to be heard and make an impact and that gets construed or reported as arrogant

By all accounts Carlisle isn't the friendliest guy (to put it nicely). I live in Dallas and they talk about this a lot on one of the local sports stations
Haralabos Voulgaris hired by the Dallas Mavs Quote
06-18-2021 , 10:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmazingErvin
I remember this because it came up spontaneously and was so funny - the host asked about the situation and Bob explained how he and Deeb got into it. Then explained if Deeb wanted to throw down he had to fight.

Host: Why would you have to fight?
Bob: The 50/50 rule
Host: What's the 50/50 rule?
Bob: If someone is over 50 and under 5 feet tall, you have to fight
lol, thanks for clarifying
Haralabos Voulgaris hired by the Dallas Mavs Quote
06-18-2021 , 10:52 PM
I found a retelling of a story that led up to the 50/50 rule thats hilarious, you can read more and another story at this post on reddit:

This is long but funny imo:

Quote:
So Freddy walks into the Commerce one day and sees the high stakes poker table, and eyes the line up. Freddy knows this “Main Game” is incredibly juicy, and wants in – immediately. He calls the floorman over and insists they create an extra space at the table for him and for the game to be played 10-handed. 10-handed was actually the common number of players in Las Vegas poker tables at the time, and Freddy was usually based there. Freddy is sort of 'big timing' the floorman, reminding him how much he's played there over the years, how much rake he's given that casino, and how all these new poker players want to play with someone like himself, a big-shot, old school, now famous poker player.

There is nothing that poker players like more than poker room drama (except maybe comped food), so this commotion has drawn the attention of every table within earshot. Everyone near by was focusing on the Main Game with Haralabos in it. Drawn from many accounts, here is a recreation of what happened:

Freddy (accented, slightly broken English)(to Floorman): Johnny, there's no board. Just put me in big blind right now and we can play with ten.

Floorman Johnny: Table's not big enough for ten, Freddy. This isn't Vegas. Our players will object. Everyone wants their space.

Freddy: Just ask then. If there are objections then Freddy will wait. But no one will object! C'mon Johnny, how much action I give to you? Freddy is “action player”. Everyone wants to play with Freddy. They see me, they know “That's Freddy” and they want to play.
[Yes, Freddy was talking about himself in the Third Person. What can I say?]

Floorman Johnny (reluctantly, to Main Game): Guys, Freddy wants to sit and play 10-handed. There is no board an he doesn't want to wait around for nothing. Any objections?

Haralabos (immediately): I object. Who the **** is this guy? [To Freddy] Buddy, you're not special. What makes you think you control this game? If more people come, then you can start a “Must-Move” game and play in that. Otherwise, wait your ****ing turn like everyone else. Ok, buddy? [To Floorman, incredulous] What the ****?

Freddy (heated at Haralabos): Listen, buddy. Everyone here know Freddy. Floorman. Dealer. Players. All know Freddy, love Freddy. Who the **** are you? In Vegas, Freddy wants a game, the manager come running to help Freddy! They bring in best table to start new game for Freddy! They get best dealer on break to come deal! They bring in new chips, new cards for Freddy! They bring special chair for Freddy to sit in!

Haralabos: Oh yeah, Freddy? Is it a high chair?

A thunderclap of uproarious laughter rang out from all who were listening in, perhaps fifty people or more, all rubberneckers from other tables drawn in by the drama. There was no denying the spontaneity, no denying the reason, and certainly no denying the focus of who the laughter was directed at. Fast Freddy, all five feet zero inches of him, with the hair-trigger anger and never lacking words, was truly stunned and humiliated into silence. His eyes became squinted and his face was stuck in a wince of pain, his whole head turning as red as a stubborn, two-week old pimple that just wouldn't pop. He rocked back and forth as if recovering from a physical punch, not knowing what to do as a second, smaller wave of laughter began because it was just that funny, and now the story was being instantly re-told.

The few that were present and could actually feel sympathy quickly stifled their laughter, feeling the guilt of knowing the guy just got hit in his most sensitive area in front of a very large audience, and was truly wounded. They were hoping Freddy would finally say something, anything, to show that he wasn't completely crushed inside, that he wasn't as hurt as he seemed. Instead, Freddy walked away silently, his decades of “bluster armor” built protecting his sensitivity about his height laid on the ground, smashed.

Souls are crushed all the time in poker rooms. You think you've seen it all, and you just grow immune. But this one stood out, as almost a warning. You just don't want to get into a verbal war with Haralabob.

There is an addendum to this story.

A year or so later, and strictly by chance, Freddy and Haralabos found themselves at the same table during a big tournament. Neither man had forgotten their previous encounter (how could they?). By this time, poker was being covered in real-time by a fleet of new poker reporters and journalists, and, by all accounts, Haralabos was riding Freddy hard that day, with verbal put-downs and jokes at Freddy's expense non-stop. Freddy tried to play it cool, knowing he was no verbal match for HBob.

Until this happened. There was a Random Guy sitting directly on Freddy's left hand side who was new, didn't know anyone at the table (or their past history with each other) and who politely told Freddy this (recreation):
Random Guy (to Freddy): Hey man. You need to protect your cards better. I can see your hole cards flash sometimes when you look. I saw you had paint last hand. You need to learn to peek without flashing.

Freddy: Buddy, do you know who I am? I'm playing this game since before you were born! I win more money this year than you will have in your whole life! They ask me to write new poker book, that is kind of player I am! Buddy, I'm writing now, next time I see you I bring you a signed copy of my poker book!

Haralabos: Next time you should bring a phone book instead so you can sit on it and see your cards better.

Well, Freddy was playing it cool with HBob until then, but that last comment instantly set him off. Again, by the written accounts of the poker reporters live blogging the event, Freddy shot straight up out of his chair (though you probably couldn't tell...) and challenged HBob to a fist fight, screaming expletives at him and demanding a duel. Haralabob just sat in his chair laughing, saying he didn't want to go outside and fight Freddy because he didn't want to get arrested for child abuse.
Haralabos Voulgaris hired by the Dallas Mavs Quote
06-18-2021 , 10:55 PM
For anyone curious about Bob, here's an old AMA thread Voulgaris had here on 2+2:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/1...is-bob-763371/
Haralabos Voulgaris hired by the Dallas Mavs Quote
06-18-2021 , 11:00 PM
Lulz:

Quote:
Originally Posted by coltranedog
If you think this hand is bad you are in for a real treat later on! I play much worse later on. As an aside how are you so certain it was a blocking bet.

The Jaguar story very quickly goes like this;

We were renting a car at Hertz and the guy kept on trying to sell me the Damage waiver, I declined stating that my CC covered it, he went on and about how he was the manager of the Hertz and it wouldn't cover this particular car because it was a luxury car. I said okay thats fine, I still don't want the damage waiver.

He basically wasn't taking no for an answer telling us what a smart move it was getting the damage waiver blah blah blah, it must have went on for like 15 mins I had had enough I looked over at the other rental agencies and they all had a line so I resigned myself to getting the damage waiver and getting out of the airport.

The day I was returning the car I saw the manager dude outside in the lot and for whatever reason I decided to scrape the entire side of the car along a stone pillar while waving hello. I realize that the damage didn't didn't come out of his pocket, but I just couldn't resist. As I exited the car and signed the return receipt I told him that he was right the Damage waiver was the nuts and I was glad he talked me into it.

I can't rent from hertz anymore.

Haralabos
Haralabos Voulgaris hired by the Dallas Mavs Quote
06-18-2021 , 11:12 PM
interesting question & answer from 2010:

Quote:
bob-

do you think cuban has been a detriment to the mavs, and, do you think he's been good for the league?

hypothetical lineup: (assume all players are in their prime)

which one would you pick?

lineup A: Steve Nash, Charles Barkley, Tim Duncan, David Robinson, Micheal Jordan
lineup B: Lebron James, Shaquille O'Neal, Kobe Bryant, Larry Bird, Kareem Abdul Jabar


What's the biggest pot you've ever won? Biggest pot lost?

Do you play above your bankroll, under your bankroll, or do you even keep your poker money separate from your other monies?

If you could buy any car today, what would it be?


Have any sick recreational gambling stories? i.e., putting $10,000 on 7 and hitting, or splitting aces five times when you were already tripling your bet, or maybe a story about a game where you would have won a huge score if someone hadn't hoisted up a meaningless 3-pointer in a blowout that killed the under?
Take a look at the Mavs record before Cuban became the owner, and take a look at the record since he became the owner. Its pretty clear he has been one of if not the best NBA owners during that time.

I am not a big fan of these lineup or player x vs player y questions, especially if they aren't current players. Sorry.

The biggest pots I ever won and lost happened (I think) the same night in the same game. I am positive about the biggest pot won, but not sure about the biggest pot lost (its close).

The pot I won was a 3 way all in on flop hand in PLO where I had ~55% equity. The total pot was around ~700k or so.

The pot I lost was with a pair of Aces vs an A high flush draw in NLH all in on flop, I lost around 300k in that pot.

I am pretty careful about my bankroll nowadays, I am too old to go broke and I find it much harder to find super +ev spots in poker or other forms of gambling/investing.

The next car I buy would probably be an electric car or a car that has the least impact on the environment. My current car is a Range Rover and I feel somewhat guilty.

link
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