Ok Assange

lol Mueller was a total joke

Hi Godgers! I haven't had time to read 2p2 today or tomorrow morning but I have a couple questions I'd like to ask you. First, what do you think the odds are cuepee would get unreasonably mad if I started calling all his ideas nonsense that needed to be ignored and then not see the hypocrisy at all? 99% 100%? I only ask you this because I like you and cuepee.

Second, I bolded "of course" because this is news to me. It seems you have overestimated my intelligence in this post which is a welcome change. I am unaware of non violent seizures of land in the pacific. Are you just talking about an imminent domain situation or as I'd like to imagine just a situation where a bunch of guys went to pacific islanders and were like " this is my land now doood" and just hung out. I kind of glossed over that part of history class since I rarely attended school. I thought it was just sort of like the "cowboys and indians" thing where everyone was murdering each other all the time until after a 100 years or so rich British guys took control of all the land. So I'd like to see an example of the whole non violent larceny of pacific islander lands before I can judge how that event would fit in with my theory of the law.

sincerely yours, Bryce

In the late 1970's, when our government was debating whether or not we should return the Canal Zone to the country of Panama, a US Senator (I believe it was S.I. Hayakawa (R-CA) ), quipped, "Of course we should keep control of the Canal; years ago we stole it fair and square!"

I am no Mueller fan but recognize he was in a bad spot.

Had he drifted off the tight mandate he was given Trump would have used that a reason to fire him. He would have gladly accepted any fallout pointing to how Mueller was, in fact, doing a witch hunt and 'here is the proof of him going off mandate'.

So Mueller stuck to a very tight investigation that had a small chance of success.

But his biggest failing was to overly trust the other levers of gov't too much. That lead him into the Bill Barr trap and in the game of chess Mueller looked like a rookie.

In hindsight Mueller should have kept more control of his work and findings and put them out instead of ceding that to Barr. Many agree the power to do so, and while others dispute that, well... that difference is the room needed to do so.

Here is my question.

Do you think the same day Trump's presidency ends, he should be arrested, charged and forced to give up his passport and private Jet for the duration of the proceedings?


Make no mistake as any other person in his position, with his means, who already sated publicly they might just leave the country if they lose, would be forced to do that.

It is not about whether you or I believe he is a flight risk, and that is not what prosecutors act on. It is about simply taking away the tools of a person who has the potential to be a flight risk. It is risk mitigation for a pending trial.

For that reason, I do think Trump should be processed (charged) so they can force the surrender of things that could allow him to simply leave the country at any point if he thought things were going the wrong way and he might indeed lose and end up in jail.

Mueller was a corrupt Republican law enforcement officer that railroaded many innocent people and did his best to shield Trump. he was also quite obv sundowning.

Not sure if you are referring to the prosecutions during his Trump investigation, as I did not see any of them as innocent, but if you are speaking more broadly of his entire career, ok.




That i do not agree with.
That i do.

This was not a good joke, since it was clear that Godgers was talking about Native Americans, not Polynesians or whatever, and therefore meant 'pacific' as in peaceful, not 'Pacific' as in Ocean. (In the Pacific, British colonies except for Fiji and the Solomons were pretty minor, and even those two were not large, and the native tribes were originally warlike but just didn't have guns. The US, on the other hand, fought the Spanish-American War in order to seize the Spanish Pacific colonies of the Philippines and Guam, Guam being at that time an important naval base, and subsequently an important air base, and it is still a US colony.)

He may perhaps face legal problems after leaving office and losing his immunity, but that is not a thing that is going to happen.

There seems to be some confusion, which I know comes from my tone by disputes with previous posters. I cant help it because this is how I naturally talk to people. This was not a joke post. I sincerely didn't read about that time in history almost at all, and my knowledge of that time in history is pretty limited.
I was disappointed cuepee called my posts nonsense because for 2 reasons;
1.) I actually like talking to cuepee and godgers
2.) I am actually making a point that I care about.

I know you think I'm joking for whatever reason, but i'm not. I feel like your being rude, even though I understand you're for all practical purposes not being rude here. I will spend the next 20 minutes writing out a bare bones sketch of the point im trying to make, and failing at, in the most simplest terms so that everyone can understand since there seems to be some confusion and because I seem to be taking a position that is not popular.

What point is spaceman bryce making?

There seems to be great consensus that Trump should be prosecuted for crimes once he leaves office regardless of the nature of those crimes; what crimes he committed is up for debate. There is real evidence that points to criminal charges that look to be very serious, what I have heard from people smarter than me is primarily charges of Obstruction of Justice, and Tax Evasion.

I am the only democrat I know that does not feel passionately that Trump needs to go to jail. I have never personally thought that trump going to prison deserves the level of discussion it got, the level of consensus it got, and especially the level of coverage it got.

I have secretly been annoyed by this discussion for a number of reasons. I will tell you some of these reasons:
I like the Trump family. I didn't vote for him. I don't support most of his ideas. I agree he is a narcissistic egomaniac who should never have been president. But Ive watched Trump on TV for decades including interviews, his Tv show the apprentice. Hes like some crazy American character who is part of the media to me. Just as I didn't like seeing Paris Hilton, or Lindsey Lohan, or Robert Downey jr thrown in jail I don't really see a need to throw away trump.
How much i like Melania only extends so far but I genuinely like her. Melania worked hard to be where she is- and yes I understand a lot of the types reading this would think this sentence is a joke too but it is Far from a joke.
I found Ivanka Trump and Don jrs families/escapades to be perfectly splendid as well. My gut reaction is not " lets kill that mother****er", my gut reaction
is " You're going to throw Donald Trump in prison? Whyyyyy though?"

In poker folding a royal flush is not a big mistake. A big mistake is calling to the river with very few outs instead of raise/folding. Even if we were going to throw Trump in prison, its not really that big of deal one way or the other. He's one guy who is like 75 and will after jan 21st have no real power anyway. He's the royal flush. The tight passive play that deserves real outrage and is a real mistake is the millions of people we send to jail every year for drug violations, very minor misconduct charges, and yes, theft. We should not be arresting a million people a year for stealing things valued at less than 20 dollars. Unless there is real violence involved someone who takes batteries from a wal mart or a teenager who "borrows" some clothes from nordstroms shouldnt be saddled with a criminal record for life.

But no one in the media wants to talk about that. I realize that for every 4 hours of msnbc or cnn coverage about how trump is insufficiently warhawkish is occasionally interrupted by a 5 minute piece about marijuana decriminalization but on main stream news media Trumps personal legal troubles are discussed wayyyy toooo mucccchhhhhhh.

And we've reached a breaking point where the masses are actually pro incarceration for anyone who makes over 100 grand a year. Paris Hilton spent weeks in jail after being sentenced to 45 days for driving on a suspended liscense. And the reasoon it happened is because a piece of **** prosecuter wanted to play famous on his own and get street cred by claiming he was "tough" on the rich because "the law is the law"
Thats bullshit. Paris has been a hardworking celebrity who is part of the fabric of America and constantly gets mistreated because shes "dumb". Even my childhood hero Britney Spears is being declared "incompetent" by a "court"
its total bullshit. And Im afraid this is a bad precedent because instead of doing the right thing and throwing less people in prison and having less police officers/better training, its just going to be a class warfare thing, where a bunch of boring souless "tough guys" like mueller are going to treat any rich or famous person who shows even the slightest amount of non scripted character like an animal because they can win popints from the mob because the "law is the law."

This is not sustainable. All the rich people and innovators in our country are going to leave because they might spend 20 years in supermax from miscalculating a number on a form one time. Why would any successful or innovative people want to be in such a country?

Anyway, thats what I really think about this. please dont say this post is a "joke"

Wat

Many people don't understand that Republicans and Democrats are essentially on the same "team."

As I've said before, it's not "red versus blue", or "conservative versus liberal", or Republican versus Democrat". It's The People versus the Ruling Class.

GWB probably was guilty of actual war crimes, but was never seriously threatened with legal action.

If they try to arrest Trump, there will be a literal Civil War, I suspect.

And Biden, Pelosi, Schumer, etc, would be next.

I don’t think it’s the people vs the ruling class. I think it’s a war between various rich parties and some of them are very very boring. I think it’s primarily a war of power vs wealth.I know this isn’t a popular opinion but it’s why I voted no and feels good to get off my chest. shrugs o well

Nothing happens to Trump. He goes back to his casino and resort businesses and continues to agitate from the sidelines.

I actually agree with most of this sentiment except the literal civil war part

How exactly would anybody expect that to happen? Biden is the commander in chief of the United States military and the most powerful weaponry known to man. No state or collection of states have the ability to combat that even if they wanted to

And the Proud Boys and Alex Jones are gonna stand up to that with a plucky can do attitude?

Anyway to the rest of your point yes. And I’d lose no sleep in Pelosi, Schumer, McConnell et al sitting next to trump in prison for the rest of their existence. But you have to start actually holding the elite accountable to make this happen

How do you hold “the elite” accountable? It’s not like there’s a some “elite” team that can be held to account.

They can't be held accountable; that's the problem.

Repealing the Income Tax and dismantling the Federal Reserve would declaw them quite a bit.

Stop feeding the Beast!

To the extent that billionaires have too much power in American society, and they do, your proposed solutions here are just laughably bad.

I wish Dvaut was here, he would know how to talk to me about this issue.

Can you elaborate on why you find Ivanka and Don Jr.'s escapades to be "perfectly splendid"?

Also, do you really think that you have enough information to say with confidence that Donald Trump should or should not be prosecuted?

I wonder what the results of this poll would have been for Bush. He lied, a lot of people died, and it was frustrating when the Obama administration ignored it. And to this day nothing has happened to him after lying to start a war.

It would be pretty much impossible to actually charge, let alone convict Bush of anything wrt to the Iraq war. Congress voted for it.

Ivanka Trump is married with 3 children.Don jr has 5 children. They’ve raised there kids well and worked on positive initiatives. I don’t see how they are some abominable evil.

Using my own ridiculously high standard for prosecuting a former president Im confident he did nothing bad enough to meet that standard. I take this seriously because we are witnessing a historical event because I think there is a good chance he will be prosecuted.