I had the same reaction. I can't claim to know a bunch of celebrities, but the few I do know are not aliens. They have individual personalities like the rest of us.

SB seems to be describing a personality type that might be more common among Kardashian types -- that is, people who are mostly famous for being famous. I certainly don't know any of those people.

Ill respond to this post first.

It depends on what eastern European country obviously but when you say "trapped" its still preferable to being literally trapped in a jail cell. I understand what you are saying very well, there's giant pockets in America full of people who live off welfare and do not much else. They suck.
But I'd point out that those "welfare pits" are still better than putting millions of people in jail over minor crimes. Of course, most people who go to jail for minor theft get out in America eventually. Now, these people often end up with no id and completely homeless and mentally traumatized from their experiences in jail. This has created poverty traps way worse than the ones your describing. Also people who go to jail for minor crimes are much more likely to be involved in intense recidivism that takes down whole families and communities.
EU countries have a much kinder philosophy on how to treat their own citizens. I understand there is downsides to legalizing anything but I think the benefits outweigh the negatives.

It's very relevant. Celebrities are treated very poorly by our justice system. But not even in the same ball park as African Americans who have been treated much much worse. I would estimate Celebrities are treated 2-3 times as badly in America as Average upper middle class people, and African Americans are treated about 25-30 times as bad as the average upper middle class citizen. It's not ok. #BLM

In America Trump was an A lister who everyone knew. His level of fame was very comparable to Paris Hilton. Everyone knew who Trump was, and he was "famous for being famous". One thing to note for foreigners who might not have known Trump, he was not famous for The Apprentice; he was famous way before that show, and the Trump I knew that was synonymous with wealth was a Donald Trump long before his boss show.

I think people are being compared to Trump too quickly. Just because you're a rich real estate developer with an attitude and conservative does not mean you're like Donald Trump anymore than I'm like Phil Ivey.

Do you think there are other celebrities that, if they decided to run for office on their own brand like Trump would have a real chance of winning?

I have to break this down because I agree with a lot of what you say but not everything. It's a fine line.

Agreed.

That's very admirable of you.Really. I agree with the point here too.

Well from my experience with Business leaders, Trumps particular mindset is not a healthy one. People like Trump don't really value loyalty so much as subservient obedience. In a way that makes no sense to the Average person, they want someone to kiss their ass at all times. People like Trump don't want people who would loyally do the job so much as they want people to say good things about them constantly. Most people with Trumps IQ dont want yes men all the time, they want people that bring something new to the table and to create win win situations. People like Trump don't see things this way. He genuinely wants people to kiss his ass all the time.


This is largely true but I would maintain that celebrities do have natural charisma and an aura about them, and furthermore I would maintain that's a good thing. As child like as it may seem society needs celebrities in the same way it needs lawyers and doctors. People need to watch exceptional people brighten up their day.


First off I have a strong personal bias. I find a little bit of fussiness and poor behavior to be an attractive quality and so the celebrities I like to read about behave a bit beyond the pale. I find Lindsey Lohan to be a much more interesting person than Billie Eilish for instance, because despite her insistence she is the "bad guy" her day to day life is more about work. Furthermore, it is boring. I like stars like Britney Spears and Whitney Houston who had to overcome tremendous obstacles. When you say that they do not suffer the consequences that normal people do, I find that many celebrities suffer extreme consequences and it's fun to watch the ones who overcome.

And yes, many celebrities are down to earth, not that I know a whole lot of celebrities. for example my next door neighbor in Kansas was for many years a famous you tuber, VSAUCE. And yes , he was very down to earth.


You don't have to dismiss his many horrible qualities to think it's not a good idea to imprison him. I think of him as a cartoon character who should just left be. I mean in ten years he's not even going to know where he is anyway.

I haven't seriously thought about this. I think a celebrity will rise form the pack at some point, but I don't know who. It wont be Oprah. I do think it is true that most celebrities don't have the combination of Brand Name, Hard Work, and sociopathic tendencies necessary to challenge people like Jeb Bush and Hillary Clinton the way that he did.
Take Paris Hilton, huge brand name, very hard working, but actually interested in partying which is a downside for actually becoming president. For Trump, who doesn't even drink, "partying" was about building his brand name, making business connections and on occasion satisfying his sexual needs. It wasnt actually about having fun.

Yes, but why did "famous for being famous" types become famous in the first place? There's an infinite supply of attractive, young potential starlets and actors living great lives attending preppy private schools right now. I think the big difference between people like the kardashians and Paris is that they were willing to put in the work when others were not.

What do you think his IQ is?

Lower than Trump thinks his IQ is that's for sure. Lower than Obama, Bush, or Clinton. Probably in the 120 range.

Oprah2024. (Not trolling)

Agreed. This is a distinction I didn't make clearly enough in my post, and you've articulated it well. The loyalty Trump is looking for goes well beyond what any normal person would seek. Fealty is perhaps the simplest way to describe it. His insecurity makes Nixon seem well-adjusted, and his narcissism has few parallels.

I may not agree with every word, but enough truth here that I won't quibble.

Yeah, there are certainly downsides to celebrity, and they can face challenges others don't - some to an extreme extent. I'll cop to having over-simplified on this point. Thinking about it more, I wonder if the "B-list" celebrities aren't in the sweet spot - many of the important perks without most of the downside. But I digress.

I think this really depends on what we're talking about. Like, I'm confident I don't even have to ask you, or hopefully anyone else, about rape/sexual assault. On the other end would be "political crimes" - the ones that politicians typically aren't charged with, lest it become a big game of tit-for-tat after every election. Politics is a bit of a blood sport, and it can involve deception and unpleasant behaviour sometimes. But still, even for things in the name of politics, there has to be a line drawn somewhere, like if a President was bribing, stealing, having political opponents "taken care of" - there are lots of things that couldn't be simply ignored. I think the question here is whether Trump crossed that line at all.

I doubt it.

She could win. She would have crushed Trump in this past election and the nomination was hers for the taking if she wanted.

If she did not rise up against Trump, i don't see her doing it in the future. I do not think it something she aspires to be.

I think we should take a break from having TV show hosts run things for a little while.

Well said. I agree with all of the above.

The US is not a State Party to the International Criminal Court, for obvious reasons (ie everyone including bad actors would be after them all the time), so American officials can never be tried at The Hague.

Lower than that. Sub-100.

.

Probably 98th percentile

https://www.msnbc.com/the-reidout/wa...ce-98627653973

I did not read this entire thread so I don't know if this has been discussed or not:

If Trump pardons himself publicly then if he has committed crimes while in office it would be imperative to have the Supreme Court rule on whether or not a President can pardon themselves. That is, the Supreme Court would be forced to rule whether or not a President is above the law. And the only way to do that would be for Trump to be charged with a crime.

If the court ruled that he could pardon himself then at least the constitution could be amended so that moving forward that would no longer be the case.

Similarly if Trump does not publicly pardon himself, it would be important to know if he had pardoned himself in private so again the Supreme Court could rule on it. But only if he had committed crimes while in office that merited prosecution.

Prosecution decisions should not be made based on whether Trump has attempted to pardon himself. I certainly wouldn't avoid a prosecution for that reason. But I also wouldn't prosecute simply to test the legal effectiveness of a self pardon.

Yes. If he'd conceded graciously.. maybe I'd have been OK moving on?

But the **** he's pulled the last 3 months cannot go unanswered. And no one is above the law.

You sweet summer child.

Right as trump's getting wheeled out Biden will be collecting his above the law merit badge. Thanks donnie

I think this has to be done for that reason assuming Trump has committed crimes.

If we do not find out the answer to this question then any future President can start committing major crimes with cohorts that understand they will be pardoned. And the President will know that they will likely not be prosecuted and/or their pardon could hold up. It would be a major deterrent to have the Supreme court rule that a President cannot pardon themselves.

I think this is especially important because there is a decent chance that Trump himself will run again in 2024 and if he should win would ratchet up his illegal behavior.

Sounds like something a James Bond Gillian would do.