the voters didnt choose ****. massive cheating and massive suppression and massive media involvement made the result academic.

thats why lol voting. #lolElectoralism

Yeah, #loldemocracy comrade, you know the corporate establishment will never allow an actual fair election where someone like Bernie Sanders can win.

exactly. welcome Comrade!

7 hr voting time in urban Texas, esp Houston. closed voting stations in areas of young demographics like cities and near college campuses.

hell, in 2016 they just straight up didnt count the ballots. Im sure they did the same this year.

As of this exact moment... Brilliant. But 1) We need to see what develops, and 2) When Trump gets wind of that plan and takes it seriously, let's just say again - the later the better.

May be smarter for Cuomo to wait and run in 2024 though.

Yes, the corporate oligarchs who control American politics will never allow a true socialist to become President, so the working class should use other means than electoral politics to take power, perhaps through a vanguard of dedicated working class intellectuals and organizers who will directly force the oligarchs to give up power, through violence if necessary.

So despite an entire year of polling that showed Biden ahead and then a not-close primary in his favor, I'm supposed to believe that Bernie is the one most Democrats support because for a week or two he had better polling (I guess this is the argument?) on the basis of some handwaving about closed voting stations? Aren't you already used to most people disagreeing with you? Why would you think most Democratic voters, who have been voting for Democrats like Joe Biden for decades now, don't actually support him or his politics when the evidence seems to indicate they do?

Can only imagine how much Hillary wants to be on this ticket.

If they won the general she’d be president faster than John Tyler.

Well, it's hard to say what you should believe.

"Sanders and his supporters have long alleged that the DNC tipped the scales in the 2016 primary. A frequent piece of evidence cited for this was the decision to hold debates on weekends when viewership would be lower. Emails released by WikiLeaks on the eve of the 2016 Democratic National Convention showed that some DNC staffers favored Clinton and were vocal about it. U.S. intelligence believes those leaked emails originated with Russia's efforts to disrupt the 2016 campaign.

Brazile herself was eventually at the center of that controversy. Emails hacked from Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta and released by Wikileaks showed that Brazile, a former CNN commentator, passed along details about questions Clinton would receive at a primary debate and a candidate forum hosted by the network. Following those revelations, CNN ended its relationship with Brazile. "

https://www.npr.org/2017/11/03/56197...th-dnc-in-2015


It's pretty clear that the DNC plays favorites and it's not hard to imagine they'd favor Biden over Bernie just as they favored Hillary.

It's also clear that Bernie was ahead in the polls at the time the primary was held. An incentive for the DNC to cheat again.

Original Position should be temp banned for maliciously claiming we would incite violence to assume power. Well Named, please, at the very least, remove this derailer/trollers posts from this thread.

I don't assume that you also lol at democracy. I don't think Bernie Sanders does. Victor seems to be down about it right now though. And yes, I think rejecting democracy and elections leads to violence. Also, the most important socialist movements that reject democracy historically have embraced violence as a legitimate means of social change.

My comment was about Biden being favored by primary voters, so I don't know why you are bringing up 2016. All you cite about this primary is that the DNC had an incentive to cheat, not that they did, let alone that Sanders was actually the one favored by most Democrats.

Pointing out that Bernie Sanders was leading in polls is fine as he was leading among a crowded field for a short while. That doesn't mean that most primary voters support him though - the voters that supported the other Democrats running also favored Biden over Sanders, so once those candidates dropped out almost all of their support went to Biden, as did most late-deciding voters, giving Biden a clear majority of voters.

Why am I bringing up the fact that the DNC cheats it's members ?

Because that was the topic. lol

You're arguing that the primary was a fair democratic process.
Everyone else knows it wasn't. Sure Joe won, the establishment got what it wanted. Just like 2016.

I know you're a Trump voter. lol You got me for a while. Well played.

I guess it depends on what you mean by lol at democracy. I do find it funny when the libs complain about voter suppression by repubs and then do it to the left, then go right back to complaining about voter suppression and gerrymandering by repubs. I do find it funny that there was an aggressive push by the libs to continue with voting in person on the March 17th primaries, when it was clearly not safe, then libs try to pass a bill that allows vote by mail nation wide for the general. I also find it funny when libs complain about Fox news spreading lies, misinformation, and gaslighting, while lib MSM did it to Bernie nonstop from day one.

I believe in democracy, and the democratic process, but there is a lot of ****ery going on and a lot of what repubs do to libs, the libs do to the left. Are you claiming that republicans do none of these things, therefore rendering it impossible that libs are doing the same? Are you saying we're just imagining things? I honestly think you're being disingenuous and a troll.

Once you internalize the fact that the neo libs and the gop are the exact same people it will all make sense.

The 'left' aka the pre 1980 dems are, to the Democratic party what the Christian right is to the GOP. Useful idiot voters.

No, Victor claimed that primary voters didn't choose Biden, but rather that he won through (among other things) massive cheating. I was disagreeing with that claim. Seems pretty clear to me that Biden is the favored choice of primary voters, and that Bernie supporters who think otherwise are deluding themselves. I also don't see massive cheating.

Nah, you just don't understand American politics. On a scale of liberal-moderate-conservative, it is still true (although it now much closer than it used to be) that most Democratic (and Democratic leaning) voters identify as either moderate or conservative.



Also make up your mind. So far you've accused me of working for the DNC, being Obama, being Biden, and now being a Trump voter. Is this the only mode of argumentation you have available?

It does seem they are pandering to us a bit more this election cycle, but I disagree with the comparison. I would say it's more of the SJW base on the left that is the equivalent of the Christian conservative base on the right. I hate to compare ourselves to them but maybe we're more like what the tea party was to the republican party.

You're not new here, why are you taking him seriously? Imagine suzzer with a traumatic brain injury and a double dose of confidence and trying to convince him the left has moved further left. If youre making the case for the benefit of others reading, makes sense

welcome back though

You mean the people who held mass attendance public events (elections) during a viral outbreak would never do something like that?

Democracy is a joke, its impossible in this country. we dont have free and fair elections in this country.

and the socialist movements that you accuse of violence dont even come close to holding a candle to all the violence this country has unleashed. I mean, the DNC just killed thousands of old people bc of the last election.

sounds like some unhinged screeching

Do what?

I don't believe it's "the left" who rejected democracy. The position has been forced on everyone, and now it's about saving democracy instead. What's the play if that can no longer be achieved solely by the will of the voters? What happens next? Pelosi made what was probably the most alarming comment I've seen her make in 2019 when she said something like "We just have to beat Trump in numbers too big for him to claim manipulation", or whatever. I tried finding the exact quote, but the point is that's hair-on-neck level scary talk from her.

Russia has shown that we have the ability to make elections appear free & fair for a long time after they aren't. Trump and the GOP understand this concept well, have stepped up their game, and have left us in situation where we have to either trust in the same institutional guard rails that keep failing us, or say the unspeakable, undemocratic things we're not allowed to say in the first place. Questioning the legitimacy of our election process is exactly the goal of democracy's enemies, and so the media, DNC, IC, etc will never do it.

If Trump wins 2020, the above is a guarantee rather than just a strong possibility.

As far as violence goes, I don't see a way to avoid at least some kind of battling no matter who wins this year. If Trump pulls crazy moves to avoid a regular election, it will surely make things worse sooner.

At this point though, diffusing the situation doesn't seem very likely at all. Trump kept doubling down on crimes and delays Martingale style, and has become too big to fail. His freedom is on the line. The oligarchy's finances are on the line. The GOP's authoritarian power grab is on the line. And they've shoved all in to make one final stand.

I don't know why violence keeps coming up, which is why I wanted the post that initiated the claim removed, but I want it to be clear that there is certainly no reason to believe anything more violent than a snake emoji would emerge from the Bernie "Bros"; other factions of both parties on the other hand, not so sure.

There's no way we don't move forward with this election. There's no excuse not to have it. We just have to make it safe for people to vote.

It's a tough situation, wiiz, but there's no reason to believe the boiling we/Rs feel beneath the surface right now (especially after CV19 and the market) will be lessened by November and beyond.

We need a miracle IMO. And that says nothing about the pacifist nature of the left.

A welcome back from JV, very telling.