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07-03-2020 , 01:55 PM
#1
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Is western democracy the best system we got if so why does the west have so much trouble? I think the “western democracy” needs work. It’s kinda a broken system.
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07-03-2020 , 01:57 PM
#2
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Democracy is just a myth. It's an oligarchy everywhere except for the handful of places that are outright dictatorships.
If real democracy ever sprang up anywhere, you can be sure it would get overthrown.
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07-03-2020 , 02:00 PM
#3
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Yes I agree that’s why I put quotes, the world is run by evil people right now.
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07-03-2020 , 03:05 PM
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It can be broken and need work and still be the best system out there.
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07-03-2020 , 03:41 PM
#6
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'Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…'

Winston S. Churchill, House of Commons, 11 November 1947
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07-03-2020 , 03:54 PM
#7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc
Democracy is just a myth. It's an oligarchy everywhere except for the handful of places that are outright dictatorships.
If real democracy ever sprang up anywhere, you can be sure it would get overthrown.
Maybe oligarchies and dictatorships are just what works best with **** Sapiens due to hardware limitations. And instead of focusing on radical change that is unlikely to work, we should be trying to make our oligarchy work better and fairer for everyone.

Do you think other systems, eg. true democracy?, haven't been given a fair shot? I think they have, and they got outcompeted by systems that worked better.
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07-03-2020 , 04:24 PM
#8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelhus100
Maybe oligarchies and dictatorships are just what works best with **** Sapiens due to hardware limitations. And instead of focusing on radical change that is unlikely to work, we should be trying to make our oligarchy work better and fairer for everyone.



Do you think other systems, eg. true democracy?, haven't been given a fair shot? I think they have, and they got outcompeted by systems that worked better.
Two questions here: 1) Do I think soicobiological explanations of government have much relevance to anything? No. I think the problem is lack of knowledge.
2) Have "true democracies" been destroyed/overrun/out-competed/genocided by the more ruthless? Yes almost certainly. That doesn't mean that these more ruthless systems "work better" though-- that's basically social darwinism/putting a positive spin on genocide.
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07-03-2020 , 04:30 PM
#9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc
Two questions here: 1) Do I think soicobiological explanations of government have much relevance to anything? No. I think the problem is lack of knowledge.
2) Have "true democracies" been destroyed/overrun/out-competed/genocided by the more ruthless? Yes almost certainly. That doesn't mean that these more ruthless systems "work better" though-- that's basically social darwinism/putting a positive spin on genocide.
Guess what, there are still ruthless nations in the world. We haven't solved that problem. Even assuming whatever your vision of utopia is actually works (which in itself is doubtful IMO), do you think the US unilaterally moving towards this systems won't be summarily destroyed/overrun/out-competed/genocided by the ruthless nations that are still playing the highly effective oligarchy/dictatorship game?
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07-03-2020 , 05:30 PM
#10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelhus100
Guess what, there are still ruthless nations in the world. We haven't solved that problem. Even assuming whatever your vision of utopia is actually works (which in itself is doubtful IMO), do you think the US unilaterally moving towards this systems won't be summarily destroyed/overrun/out-competed/genocided by the ruthless nations that are still playing the highly effective oligarchy/dictatorship game?
https://youtu.be/HsX3Ybe062A
The original version is from Bad Religion but I like the Sublime one better. But this is definitely what I'm reminded of here. And I don't really have a good answer for this. I'm fine with "it is what it is". I don't think the answer is to be ruthless in response to ruthlessness though.
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07-03-2020 , 05:42 PM
#11
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In some ways it is a game theory problem. We are all playing Game A, and we all know that in the long run Game A ends disastrously for everyone (Even in China and Russia they have probably figured this out). But Game A is much more effective in the short run, and anyone who tries to switch to Game B isn't going to be around in the long run to worry about it.

And as I have said before, maybe this is the answer to Fermi's Paradox. Intelligent beings just can't evolve fast enough to transcend the non sustainable cultures they invariably would have had to empty to become intelligent in the first place.
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07-03-2020 , 06:11 PM
#12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 57 On Red
'Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…'

Winston S. Churchill, House of Commons, 11 November 1947
yeah if your system isnt perfect go fix it first before trying to change others countries government. the west (esp america) needs to back the f off and stop meddling in other countries policy.
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07-03-2020 , 11:16 PM
#13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by campfirewest
It can be broken and need work and still be the best system out there.
Yeah don’t export something that is broken. Fix it first then export it. Work on your own country first. Stop worrying about others
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07-04-2020 , 12:41 AM
#14
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When Western Democracy goes bad, just blame the Jews.

Happens every time in every country. It's Jared Kushner's fault now.
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07-04-2020 , 08:26 PM
#15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smudger2408
When Western Democracy goes bad, just blame the Jews.

Happens every time in every country. It's Jared Kushner's fault now.
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07-05-2020 , 05:29 PM
#16
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Kushner is an idiot, and this is independent of his ethnicity.

Apart from that, modern democracy has the historically peculiar trait of being a system of government where citizens are free to point out its flaws. This makes it seem a fair bit worse than it is.
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07-05-2020 , 05:34 PM
#17
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it's a republic... if you can keep it... at least that's what the US is supposed to be
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07-06-2020 , 06:52 AM
#18
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Western democracy did great things for Africa and South America.
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07-06-2020 , 08:08 AM
#19
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