Chart shows infection RATES, not absolute numbers.

Fair enough but we differ on the best approach a fair bit and I'd certainly reject what I consider a very naive utlitarian approach because life goes on, there will be further political issues and and people change

I also think the 'common sense' thing is a very bad mistake. There is no common sense here, this is about who and what we trust.

England has done pretty well relative to many countires with many anti inclined people persuaded to take the vaccines and continuing to do so. That's because by and large we do trust the NHS/etc and medical ethics. That trust has to be continuously nurtured and built on - or we are all ****ed.

At heart, it's political polarisation and divisivness that is an absolute catastrophe.

I am in a country where 90% of adults are vaccinated, and it was barely the political theater of the USA. I actually supported a ton of educational and awareness programs, especially in lower serviced areas, but there does come a point where you have reached 95%+ of the people you can and it is better to use resources moving forward assuming the derps will always remain derps, even if a few might convert with a huge amount of additional resources. Reality is at this point that most of the hard core derps get converted once someone close to them croaks needlessly. Am I a bit harsh in this area of discussion? Perhaps, but I do firmly believe that those that think like you get there way too late and end up costing a ton of resources (time and money and energy) in the process. I say that knowing that this is also an area which is subjective.

Our disagreement is largely your attitude to the people you call derps. No such assumption is required or does anything but make it worse.

I'm not evens sure what you mean by allocating resources. We welcome and enourage people gettign their first dose - 'no shame in it' is the message. That is absolutely correct imo rather than anything like 'you're a derp', **** off'

Some areas (mainly in the USA) actually paid people relatively recently to get shots. Some employers did the same. I get the thinking behind it in theory, but all you do is alienate those who did not get paid and did the right thing before being offered a bribe to do so. That aspect of the story rarely gets covered.

There comes a time where the marginal benefit of educational or bribery based programs to get derps to see the light is not worth it. I tend to think that line comes well before you do, and that is an area where it can be subjective. If you have spent a ton of time volunteering to drive people to get vaccinations ( I did that with quite a few people, though they were people who did not have cars, not so much that they were anti vaxx derps) and such, or you were in the trenches in some other manner then I would give you some extra credit, but my gut feeling is you have not done that much other than having your personal opinions on the topic, which is fine, but I will hardly give that nearly as much credit other than to say you are entitled to believe whatever you like.

I agree and it's also a matter of medical ethics which seems absent in the usa in many ways. Paying peopel to take treatments shoudl be highly regulated

Not a fan of bribary. Kudos to you for helping but I dont care a jot what you think of me or what I do.

Not suggesting you should care what I think about you or vice versa. If either of us died the other would correctly not particularly care, because why should we? Thus, no need to assume getting the other in this chat to "care" is that significant. It is not.

The topic is how government and other agencies spend their limited resources trying to get a specific message to the public, in this case with regard to vaccinations. Do I think messaging has been great to date in that regard? Not really? Do I think it would be easy for it to be much better? Not really, that is one of the limiting factors of governments, so in the end it eventually comes down to a cost benefit analysis as to when additional messaging has marginally adequate response or when it does not. At this point in my opinion the vast bulk of derps are locked in, so messaging to them is relatively pointless. Better to use the resources for something more potentially useful. If you disagree with that then that is fine, but I guess I would ask what percent of derps you think will see the light with this tyoe of messaging 2 years into this thing. Look at the derps and what they post here - you think they will change their perspective at this point?

I'd care if you died.

But the topic was resources aimed at those who refuse to come forward and get vaccinated so volunteering to drive those who want vaccines is highly laudible but a red herring.

Not a fan of the government messaging approach at all (that's a different issue) but I dont think it costs anything to include the message from the medical professionals that there's no shame in coming forward for your first dose now. And I totally approve of it being free and easily available and people being made aware that it is free and easily available.

Is that what you think is wasted? The tiny bit (if any) of money spent on informing people that they can still get a first jab free and easily. If so we disagree

Why? We are nothing to each other and literally a ton of people die every day that have as much of a connection with you. Other than saying that to feel like you are a better person, do you really stop and mourn all the people who died that day that you essentially have no connection with your entire life? That would be quite time consuming and emotionally draining, so for now I do not entirely believe you, even if you actually believed yourself when you said it.

I did not say this to imply I was a better human. Reality is I interact often with most of these people and from a selfish perspective I wanted them vaccinated. While they were not anti-vaxx derps, the inability to easily get to a mass vaccination center was a factor in their choice to get vaccinated, so this helped resolve that issue. Being blunt, I would not bother with a hard core anti-vaxxer, because why bother, not worth my time and energy.


Actually, there is a cost. It takes time to create that content, time that all those involved can be doing other things. It takes money to create it as well. Would you create a lot of public service announcements to help spread the message of sleeping sickness from tse tse flies for your country? Probably not, because there is no real payoff. Same thing here - at this point there is really no real payoff, so why spend the resources.


You would be surprised how much all these tiny bits add up in the end, and it all comes down to a cost benefit analysis. The whole "what is the harm" approach makes people like you feel like better humans, but it ignores the actual math of the situation, one that is much different now than it was months ago. Things change and resources should always be spent in as efficient manner as possible, and trying hard to convince the remaining derps is a very poor use of resources at this time in my opinion. You can think differently if that makes you feel better, but again you are someone who clearly has never been in the trenches of this topic in any way shape or form, so I will put less value on your beliefs than someone who has gotten their hands dirty trying to do the things you think should be theoretically done. If someone who has spent a ton of hours going to disadvantaged areas trying to spread the message and offering help told me they still saw value in what they do, even though they got yelled at a lot and got lots of death threats etc from derps (kind of like the school admins got from some at town meetings) - you know what, I will not argue the point with them even if I wonder if they are getting any real payoff. They earned it in my opinion. People like you who do nothing other than talk about it - I simply cannot give the same leeway. No offense.

Welcome to the low IQ club.

Again your data is meaningless without a source.

Here's some sourced data for you:

https://www.beckershospitalreview.co...content=top-40

And talking about hospitals. Here's a couple of interesting articles for you about health care workers in Ventura County and possible vaccine adverse reactions they are seeing in their hospitals. Pretty disturbing stuff if true.

https://conejoguardian.org/2021/10/2...l-health-care/

https://conejoguardian.org/2021/12/1...tting-strokes/

So just like that cdc goes from 10 days to 5 days ? lol

Nothing to do with being a better person - what a bizaare notion.

Hard to quantify caring but let's say more than I cared about princess di dying and less than I cared about freddie mercury dying

Again with this better human thingy? I'm different and whatever I've done to combat covid has been primarily bacause I want to protect other people. It's still selfish, I suffer from caring about them.


I think it's a stretch to say that it added cost of the interview to include the bit about first time vaccines. Given the dross that is endlessy on the tv about covid, I think it's mor eliekly a net saving if some of the bollocks were replaced with it.

I'd agree on a limit on public service announcment expenditure but I've no idea what there actually is that you think should be cut to save money.

I would be very suprsied. So far we have diddly sqquat and it's probably a negative cost given there's nothign else useful to fill all the slots on the endless news cycle.

If you have an actual cost benefit analysis then i would happily look at it but i'm pretty sure you dont. Your silly bit at the end suggest you know your argument is piss poor

You can simply look at the rate of people from the unvaccinated derps getting vaccines and what drives them. It is not government messaging at this point. Some did it because they were forced to (vaccine mandates - pretty much the only value of those) and others did once someone that mattered to them croaked (which is personal and government messaging is useless in that regard). PSAs that somehow are free to make in your mind (heh on that concept) had value for a while, but at this point with all the long term data and results - they no longer sway anyone to get vaccinated.

You remind me of the donks in the thread here that featured that guy who conned people at the airports for decades. A few of them tried genuinely to "help"him, even when it was clear he did not care about it and it would do no good. To be fair, one admitted he was a past addict and his new addiction was helping other addicts. That guy I gave a pass to, because while he knew it was basically pointless it helped himself with his issues in a positive manner - so go for it. In the end that airport scammer dude ended up in jail again recently for scamming people at airports.

Anyways, you do you, whatever that entails. As to your earlier odd list - I would put Princess Di, Freddy Mercury and you in exactly the same category. Take that as you like.

I didn't know what was more useful than a range of people I didn't know. Clearly we are different as we already knew. Nothign wrong with that.

As for the rest, the content has all evaporated so all the special to you

I will say with the equivalent genuineness - all the special to you as well.

Thank you. I've already polished off the best

Damn it . Wife’s home with the kid (5 years old ) for the next 7 days and she can’t take him anywhere . We re in nyc and they’ve basically shunned every kid 5+ from doing anything fun , zoos museums etc….
just gave in and told my wife to get him vaxxed . This is some serious segregation bs , I’m upset but also don’t want my kid to be a hermit

Saying that minorties dont have id is very racist

How many people under the age of 40 died from covid in the usa? How many people died from the flu in 2017/18 in the usa? Is it worth it to mandate a vaccine if it destroys the economy and saves relatively little lives? Seems to me we should be mandating/encouraging those over 40 since they are the most at risk. When very few under 40 are dying it seems shutting down the economy to protect only the elderly is illogical and lunacy. Provide psas and doctkrs advice for the elderly to stay home and get vaccinated, dont ruin everyones lives

The bolded would only be relevant to the conversation if Tylenol(TM) was being mandated for travel and employment, etc.

Yikes. Two to three months protection only from Pfizer 2nd and 3rd doses.

https://www.jpost.com/health-and-wel...article-689749

I got the Pfizer vaccine in August. No more vaccinations and/or "boosters" for me.

I shan't go into any details since I don't want to run afoul of the Moderators.

You act as if this is the first vaccine to ever exist that had some form of requirement to take it to participate in certain things. How many kids a year die from polio these days in the USA, yet every state has a mandate for kids to have a vaccine for it to go to school.

As I mentioned earlier - the only real benefit I see from these mandates is that they force a lot of derps to get one that would normally not get one. An example would be the one above who finally "gave in" and let his family do the right thing. There is no other form of messaging that will ever get someone like that to change their mind.

Infection rates PM are still absolute.

To give an accurate picture you need relative numbers that reflect the ratio of 70% of the population being vaxxed, so each vaxxed person and each unvaxxed person infected is not an equal unit of comparison.