[US Politics] Why do people support liberal policy when the results are poor? - Page 2 - Politics and Society -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

The united states is not at war. Russia and Ukraine are at war because Russia invaded.

Liberal policies like NATO helped keep more stability in Europe than any other 75 year period in their history. Same with the EU.

I'm not so convinced NATO can take any significant portion of the attribution for post-war stability. I would look to the UN, the Marshall Plan, globalisation, and even nuclear weapons as more compelling reasons for that particular period of stability. Isn't the US still occupying Afghanistan?

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08-09-2023 , 01:51 PM

#27

Luckbox Inc

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Originally Posted by wazz

Syria yes, Afghanistan I'm pretty sure no.

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08-09-2023 , 02:19 PM

#28

caseIIclosed

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Originally Posted by wazz

NATO is globalization. Separating NATO from the marshall plan seems suspect. Regardless, except for nuclear weapons, those are liberal policies anyway. So it goes to the original point of how liberalism has been great and I support continuing liberal policies.

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08-09-2023 , 02:52 PM

#29

Luckbox Inc

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Liberalism with a capital L and whatever OP intends when he talks about "liberal policy" are almost certainly not the same thing.

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08-09-2023 , 02:55 PM

#30

caseIIclosed

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Alright, I don't care about getting into a dictionary argument.

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08-09-2023 , 02:58 PM

#31

Bobo Fett

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

Liberalism with a capital L and whatever OP intends when he talks about "liberal policy" are almost certainly not the same thing.

I've never understood that distinction, aside from when one is a supporter/member of a literal "Liberal Party". If one isn't, then what makes one a "capital L liberal"?

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08-09-2023 , 04:28 PM

#32

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Originally Posted by Bobo Fett

I've never understood that distinction, aside from when one is a supporter/member of a literal "Liberal Party". If one isn't, then what makes one a "capital L liberal"?

Capital L Liberalism refers to things to belief in the rule of law, of democracy, principals like all people being equal....the sorts of ideas and ideals associated with the enlightenment and that we take for granted today.

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08-09-2023 , 05:13 PM

#33

ArcherOfLoaf

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Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

What's your favorite result? Is it the declining standard of living or permawar that you like best?

There are only 2 options? Or are you a simpleton?

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08-09-2023 , 05:13 PM

#34

Bobo Fett

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Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

That just sounds like liberalism.

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08-09-2023 , 05:17 PM

#35

ArcherOfLoaf

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I tend to be slightly more conservative than liberal (in the pre-Trumptard sense. Trumpers are not conservatives. They are angry mental midgets who have no talent or skills of any practical value.)

I tend to vote more liberal though because the people on the right are such ****ing *******s. Not all, of course, but TONS are just total ****ing dicks. The left have their nutjobs who see nothing but roses and unicorns, but they're happy, nice people. So many on the right are bitter, angry pricks. And religion. I hate religion and the right is full of religious nuts. It poisons people's brains.

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08-09-2023 , 05:24 PM

#36

Schlitz mmmm

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Oh. The Mickey Mouse inversion of the other thread, courtesy of wreckem big brain

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08-09-2023 , 05:24 PM

#37

d2_e4

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Originally Posted by ArcherOfLoaf

No need to sit on the fence, bro, tell us how you really feel.

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08-09-2023 , 08:30 PM

#38

wazz

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Originally Posted by d2_e4

No need to sit on the fence, bro, tell us how you really feel.

If you're anywhere to the left of Trump, we should be welcoming the existence of and encouraging the confidence of conservative voices that come out against him, imo.

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08-09-2023 , 08:42 PM

#39

d2_e4

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Originally Posted by wazz

If you're anywhere to the left of Trump, we should be welcoming the existence of and encouraging the confidence of conservative voices that come out against him, imo.

I was joking dude, if you knew my history you'd know I have a reputation on this forum for being fervently antireligious and expressing similar (and stronger) sentiments.

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08-09-2023 , 09:59 PM

#40

Schlitz mmmm

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good stuff, bros

Rabbi Archer, you ARE welcome here

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08-09-2023 , 10:38 PM

#41

ArcherOfLoaf

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobo Fett

That just sounds like liberalism.

It is. Shockingly, he’s misinformed.

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08-09-2023 , 11:26 PM

#42

Luckbox Inc

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Originally Posted by ArcherOfLoaf

It is. Shockingly, he’s misinformed.

Lol no I am not.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, right to private property and equality before the law.[1][2][3] Liberals espouse various views depending on their understanding of these principles but generally support private property, market economies, individual rights (including civil rights and human rights), liberal democracy, secularism, rule of law, economic and political freedom, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, and freedom of religion,[11] constitutional government and privacy rights.[12] Liberalism is frequently cited as the dominant ideology of modern history.[13][14]

If you think the OP is wondering why people support this then lol.

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Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

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08-09-2023 , 11:36 PM

#43

Victor

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Originally Posted by caseIIclosed

Europe eh? typical liberal only caring about white people.

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08-10-2023 , 12:09 AM

#44

caseIIclosed

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Boring, Victor.

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08-10-2023 , 12:28 AM

#45

campfirewest

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Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobo Fett

That just sounds like liberalism.

Modern lefty liberalism is pretty anti-enlightenment.

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08-10-2023 , 04:46 AM

#46

Bobo Fett

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Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

Lol no I am not.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, right to private property and equality before the law.[1][2][3] Liberals espouse various views depending on their understanding of these principles but generally support private property, market economies, individual rights (including civil rights and human rights), liberal democracy, secularism, rule of law, economic and political freedom, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, and freedom of religion,[11] constitutional government and privacy rights.[12] Liberalism is frequently cited as the dominant ideology of modern history.[13][14]

If you think the OP is wondering why people support this then lol.

I'm wondering if you missed what I was actually asking, which was the difference between "capital L" liberal/liberalism, and regular liberal/liberalism. You provided a definition, I said that just sounded like liberalism, and you've provided a passage that describes liberalism. Nothing in the article says anything about "capital L liberalism", and I find myself no wiser as to what is meant by "capital L" other than the obvious example of when one is a member/supporter of a literal Liberal party, like we have here in Canada.

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08-10-2023 , 05:40 AM

#47

ArcherOfLoaf

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobo Fett

Most Trumptards have no idea that we live in basically a liberal democracy that has Liberal and Conservative viewpoints. They are stupid and uneducated, and thus dangerous.

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08-10-2023 , 06:22 AM

#48

Luckbox Inc

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Originally Posted by ArcherOfLoaf

Most Trumptards have no idea that we live in basically a liberal democracy that has Liberal and Conservative viewpoints. They are stupid and uneducated, and thus dangerous.

This is a non sequitur.

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08-10-2023 , 06:26 AM

#49

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Originally Posted by Bobo Fett

As campfire points out, that doesn't actually sound anything like what counts for popular "left leaning" parties-- not that I'm too familiar with your Liberal party but it certainly doesn't describe the Democratic party in the US.

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08-10-2023 , 08:20 AM

#50

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Originally Posted by Bobo Fett

If anything, it more describes US conservatives than liberals.

Things like property rights, consent of the governed, individual liberty, freedom of speech, market economies, and constitutional government are all GOP talking points that the typical liberal would eschew.

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