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02-25-2024 , 12:48 PM

#201

Bluegrassplayer

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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68397525

Ukraine war: Zelensky says 31,000 troops killed

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02-25-2024 , 10:19 PM

#202

Victor

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lol

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02-26-2024 , 05:54 AM

#203

Luciom

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Originally Posted by Victor

lol

you think it's more or less?

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02-26-2024 , 06:49 AM

#204

corpus vile

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According to this (1:56) US officials estimate Ukrainian forces have lost 70k with roughly 100k wounded and this was uploaded the same day Zelensky claimed 31k losses.

Channel 4 news states Ukranian military death tolls are state secrets (which makes Zelensky's admission bemusing) so the numbers can't be fact checked. Infographics also claims 22k Wagner forces killed but C4 state this claim is from a Wagner affiliated telegram channel so can't be verified.
https://www.channel4.com/news/factch...ld-happen-next

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02-26-2024 , 07:26 AM

#205

Bluegrassplayer

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US officials already claimed 70k last August. Pentagon leak was far less, and Zelenskyy's numbers are actually in line with the Pentagon leak.

There's clearly significant playing with the numbers regardless though. Zelenskyy is likely counting all MIA as a separate stat when in reality they're mostly dead. Even with that I think he's underselling the deaths by half at least.

I wonder why he mentioned it at all though.

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02-26-2024 , 07:37 AM

#206

Hoopie1

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Can I request that the thread title is changed to "Ukraine-Russia War: Hot Takes 2"?

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02-26-2024 , 08:09 AM

#207

Bluegrassplayer

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Given the topic some degree of heat is going to be there.

Which take do you find particularly "hot"?

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02-26-2024 , 08:55 AM

#208

corpus vile

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Originally Posted by Bluegrassplayer

Me too. If it was to give context as to why aid was needed, you'd think the numbers would be exaggerated somewhat. I'm surprised he gave figures at all.

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02-26-2024 , 09:05 AM

#209

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Right. When Ukraine was arguing for cluster munitions they were releasing some extremely graphic footage of failed Ukrainian assaults. I would have expected something more along those lines.

I guess it's impossible to balance though since Ukraine is also getting attacked from the "to the last Ukrainian" propaganda angle.

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02-26-2024 , 09:18 AM

#210

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The last Sam Harris with Peter Zeihan on it was an interesting listen with regards to this conflict. I take it with a big grain of salt. Still was interesting.

Fwiw he's predicting a Trump loss (which we don't have to wait too long to verify).

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02-26-2024 , 09:21 AM

#211

Hoopie1

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Originally Posted by Bluegrassplayer

Given the topic some degree of heat is going to be there.

Which take do you find particularly "hot"?

Well, I'd say that PlayBig's posts are as spicy as you are likely to find anywhere.

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02-26-2024 , 09:22 AM

#212

Bluegrassplayer

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rofl

I thought you were talking specifically about the speculation on casualties.

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02-26-2024 , 10:19 AM

#213

Victor

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30k dead is about as spicy as it gets. hard to reconcile that absurd number with the realities. Ukraine is kidnapping men, able-bodied or not, off the streets and shipping them to the meat grinder.

the leaks from about a year ago put it at like 130k casualties. and if anything the fighting has been more furious and brutal since then.

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02-26-2024 , 10:39 AM

#214

Bluegrassplayer

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Deaths and casualties aren't the same thing.

The figures from the leaks with 130k casualties broke down to 15k to 18 KIA and 110k to 115k WIA, which is completely in line with what Zelenskyy is saying.

Last edited by Bluegrassplayer; 02-26-2024 at 10:50 AM.

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02-26-2024 , 10:55 AM

#215

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https://visitukraine.today/blog/3421...d-by-president

Looks the step before a mobilization bill.

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02-26-2024 , 11:31 AM

#216

Victor

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Im taking the way over on 30k

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02-26-2024 , 12:46 PM

#217

corpus vile

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02-26-2024 , 01:09 PM

#218

Luciom

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Originally Posted by Victor

Ok so you meant it is a lowball number.

Of course it is.

But it is still higher than palestinian causalties and Zelensky right now needs that, 31k isn't a random number, it's basically claiming "we confirm we had least had more deaths than the palestinians, so please come back giving a **** about us and don't focus only on them".

Do you have any ottoman deed for the Donbass as well?

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02-26-2024 , 01:36 PM

#219

Victor

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your comparison doesnt really make sense. USA and Western powers clearly want more Gazans to die. they dont want the Ukrainians to die....er....hmm, I guess it would be more accurate to say they dont care if they die so long as they help the cause of "weakening Russia". so maybe it is apt in that hey can you guys help us to die as fast as the Gazans for your cause of Western hegemeny?

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02-26-2024 , 02:01 PM

#220

PointlessWords

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What speaks louder

Actions? Or words?

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02-26-2024 , 05:20 PM

#221

corpus vile

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Originally Posted by Victor

your comparison doesnt really make sense. ]USA and Western powers clearly want more Gazans to die. they dont want the Ukrainians to die....er....hmm, I guess it would be more accurate to say they dont care if they die so long as they help the cause of "weakening Russia". so maybe it is apt in that hey can you guys help us to die as fast as the Gazans for your cause of Western hegemeny?

Wow that's almost like An Axis of Evil hell bent on...Western "hegemeny", huh? Admit it vic that does sound kinda badass.

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02-26-2024 , 05:21 PM

#222

Luciom

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Originally Posted by corpus vile

Wow that's almost like An Axis of Evil hell bent on...Western "hegemeny", huh? Admit it vic that does sound kinda badass.

The west wants western allies to prosper, that's outrageous and genocidal!

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02-26-2024 , 05:26 PM

#223

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Originally Posted by Luciom

The west wants western allies to prosper, that's outrageous and genocidal!

If North Korea, Iran or China-Taiwan ever kick off, I'll look forward to vic's musings on how it's all the AmeriKKKan-Western Power Axis of "Hegemeney's" fault.

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02-26-2024 , 05:40 PM

#224

Bluegrassplayer

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor

Im taking the way over on 30k

This was obvious since before you even posted. It's just funny that you'd call Zelenskyy's numbers absurd, then point to the stats which shows that his numbers are completely realistic... and you did this after I already explained that that set of numbers make his numbers realistic.

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02-26-2024 , 06:00 PM

#225

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I don't think Zelenskyy was trying to "out do" Gaza.

The more I think about it the more Zelenskyy's numbers seem realistic, especially if he excluded MIA.

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