Ukraine-Russia War Take 2 - Page 62 - Politics and Society -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

To be clear, the hidden posts that debunk me are in a graveyard?

The problem with your narrative is I want ACCESS to those posts. Because the narrative you were painting doesn't fit anymore. And I want to show everyone.

My argument isn't hidden either, its that this was a covert build up into a US ally based attack on Russia. Its starting to be said in more mainstream media now. It was just outlandish sounding because of the controlled narrative.

It is? Do you have any examples?

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Yesterday , 10:55 PM

#1528

Bluegrassplayer

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Yesterday , 11:15 PM

#1529

jbouton

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Originally Posted by Dunyain

It is? Do you have any examples?

I'm not making a statement about mainstream media. I'm saying its getting to be more normal people and indie, rather than anonymous accounts.

And then we are seeing countries starting to sanction the use of attacks on Russian territory.

This will change the moral sentiments of my peers as they didn't realize that would happen.

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Yesterday , 11:48 PM

#1530

Dunyain

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Originally Posted by jbouton

I actually follow Sachs on X. Not because I agree with him, but I do think it useful to get other perspectives than what I agree with. It is just when you used the term "more mainstream," Tucker interviewing him isn't what came to mind.

And he seems to generally argue the west forced Russia's hand, by attempting to push NATO East, breaking promises they wouldn't. You seem to be taking it further and arguing Ukraine actually is the one attacking Russia.

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Yesterday , 11:51 PM

#1531

jbouton

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Originally Posted by Dunyain

That was my bad language. I wasn't saying 'more and more outlets that are mainstream'. I was saying, outlets that aren't as far away from the mainstream as in the past.

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Originally Posted by Dunyain

And he seems to generally argue the west forced Russia's hand, by attempting to push NATO East, breaking promises they wouldn't. You seem to be taking it further and arguing Ukraine actually is the one attacking Russia.

My understanding is that at this time, nations that were fueling, funding, training, strategizing, etc for ukraine, are now lining up to vocally sanction Ukraine strikes in russia. So yes my understanding is that Ukraine is now attacking russia in russia which again my peers won't really be able to resolve.

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Today , 12:03 AM

#1532

Bluegrassplayer

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Why won't they be able to resolve this?

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Today , 12:11 AM

#1533

jbouton

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Originally Posted by Bluegrassplayer

Why won't they be able to resolve this?

Because they were told it was an unprovoked not-a-proxy-war and now its becoming an undeniable global scale battleground with US/ally/nato offensive properties.

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Today , 12:15 AM

#1534

Bluegrassplayer

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It can still be an unprovoked not-a-proxy-war even if Ukraine is allowed to attack the person invading them in the locations where Ukraine is being invaded from.

Can you explain how you are arriving at these conclusions without using your own conclusions as evidence for how your arrived at your conclusions?

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Today , 12:18 AM

#1535

jbouton

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Originally Posted by Bluegrassplayer

It can still be an unprovoked not-a-proxy-war even if Ukraine is allowed to attack the person invading them in the locations where Ukraine is being invaded from.

It can be anything we narrate it to be yes. But a narrative is not truth.

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Today , 12:21 AM

#1536

Bluegrassplayer

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Can you explain how you are arriving at these conclusions without using your own conclusions as evidence for how your arrived at your conclusions?

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Today , 12:30 AM

#1537

jbouton

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluegrassplayer

Can you explain how you are arriving at these conclusions without using your own conclusions as evidence for how your arrived at your conclusions?

Which conclusions, that this is a proxy war unfolding as a war between US allies and russia? Its observable.

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Today , 12:39 AM

#1538

Bluegrassplayer

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How would you help one who is observing this and failing to come to the conclusions you are coming to arrive at the conclusions that you are arriving at by oberserving these things?

In particular, how could one who is watching countries allow Ukraine to fire an extremely limited distance into Russia with their weapons (although really any distance) come to the conclusion that this is proof that this is a proxy war?

Last edited by Bluegrassplayer; Today at 12:47 AM.

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Today , 12:49 AM

#1539

jbouton

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I dunno, but its just getting obvious I think. I usually think more of the long plays. Like getting caught being right over time.

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Today , 03:05 AM

#1540

Luciom

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Originally Posted by PointlessWords

Russia shouldn’t have invaded Ukraine after getting Ukraine to surrender its nukes

Fact is we let Russia do it in 2014 when they took Crimea with minimal consequences from us.

After that it was only a matter of time for them to regroup, fortify their presence there, prop up their militaries, and make us another casus belli to justify further invasions to the jb of the world (they care a lot about the narrative because support for Putin in many countries is very relevant to the success of Russian operations, same as support for Hamas is for theirs)

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Today , 05:01 AM

#1541

Bluegrassplayer

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It started before that, but that should have been a wakeup call for sure.

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Today , 09:05 AM

#1542

EUROVISA

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Dear colleagues, please share this text on your social networks.

“Joe Biden @POTUS, your leadership at the Peace Summit is crucial for lasting peace in Europe and the future of global stability. Join your fellow world leaders in Switzerland on June 15 #PeaceNeedsJoe”

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Today , 12:13 PM

#1543

ganstaman

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I am busy but will try to moderate this thread more closely for a while. Insinuating that BGP controls this thread in some way is false and not allowed. Saying that Russia was provoked into invading Ukraine is false and not allowed, short of some new facts or actual intelligent analysis. To JBouton more specifically, making posts which continually hint at some argument but never make the argument is akin to trolling in my view as you aren't actually advancing a discussion but instead aggravating the readers.

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Today , 12:14 PM

#1544

PointlessWords

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Originally Posted by Bluegrassplayer

A limited proxy war is still a ….. proxy war

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Today , 12:15 PM

#1545

Luciom

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ganstaman

I am busy but will try to moderate this thread more closely for a while. Insinuating that BGP controls this thread in some way is false and not allowed. Saying that Russia was provoked into invading Ukraine is false and not allowed, short of some new facts or actual intelligent analysis. To JBouton more specifically, making posts which continually hint at some argument but never make the argument is akin to trolling in my view as you aren't actually advancing a discussion but instead aggravating the readers.

wait wait what? there are actual theories of what happened that aren't allowed to be discussed?

I mean I am the first to contest that theory but why is it not allowed to discuss it???

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Today , 01:15 PM

#1546

Bluegrassplayer

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Read the entire sentence.

Ty gansta.

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Today , 01:16 PM

#1547

ganstaman

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Originally Posted by Luciom

wait wait what? there are actual theories of what happened that aren't allowed to be discussed?

I mean I am the first to contest that theory but why is it not allowed to discuss it???

At least in the vague, conspiracy-ish ways it's been discussed over the past 1-2 days. Such things never go anywhere productive. A rational discussion that includes facts is fine.

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