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Trump's War on the Post Office Trump's War on the Post Office

08-23-2020 , 03:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsterJMcgee
IHIV what is even your point here about the USPS having problems that predate Trump? Do you think that disproves that Trump is actively trying to make those problems worse?
TRUMP DOES NOT CONTROL THE USPS! STOP PRETENDING HE DOES. HE CANT MAKE THEM WORSE, OR BETTER. His comments were not based on reality.

Last edited by itshotinvegas; 08-23-2020 at 03:56 PM. Reason: he's mostly irrelevant, outside of a veto
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08-23-2020 , 04:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
TRUMP DOES NOT CONTROL THE USPS! STOP PRETENDING HE DOES. HE CANT MAKE THEM WORSE, OR BETTER. His comments were not based on reality.
LOL you don't think an unscrupulous President can have any influence over the people he appoints? You don't think maybe Trump handpicked the guy most likely to dismantle the USPS?
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08-23-2020 , 04:02 PM
Trump doesn't personally run and oversee the USPS day-to-day business activities, therefore he has zero influence over anything going on over there!

Good stuff by IHIV who is absolutely 10000% ***NOT*** a Trump supporter
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08-23-2020 , 04:15 PM
ok you guys i think you did it. i think you finally made good enough arguments and presented enough logic and evidence that IHIV is convinced.
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08-23-2020 , 04:22 PM
The guy who runs his mouth about anything and everything, and is hardly right about anything, is right about his ability to influence the USPS because....he said so?


Last edited by itshotinvegas; 08-23-2020 at 04:24 PM. Reason: I'm dealing with brainiacs here...
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08-23-2020 , 04:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
The guy who runs his mouth about anything and everything, and is hardly right about anything, is right about his ability to influence the USPS because....he said so?

Not just because he said so, but also because his handpicked donor runs the USPS. Why so many snuck premises, IHIV? Clearly I'm dealing with a brainiac here.
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08-23-2020 , 04:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
Not just because he said so, but also because his handpicked donor runs the USPS. Why so many snuck premises, IHIV? Clearly I'm dealing with a brainiac here.
A machiavellian plot with zero evidence cause Trump bad.
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08-23-2020 , 04:33 PM
There's not zero evidence
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08-23-2020 , 04:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
There's not zero evidence
Oh yeah, machines were removed due to this machiavellian plot, but no evidence exist to support a conspiracy, but evidence exist letter mail is down substantially.
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08-23-2020 , 04:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
I don't think I did.




What are you basing the "vast" on? The machine story? Trump's ignorant comments about funding? Like, what if he's right, and he needs to restructure things to handle the increased amount of packages, but now he has to stop to placate the **** storm this created? This opens the door from any future postmaster making changes without getting approval first and puts them squarely in the political realm.


The issue here is, the USPS does not report to Trump. This is honest and sincere question. If you think the USPS can be so thoroughly corrupted by Trump, why would you support mail-in voting?
The postal service is obviously a vast piece of infrastructure and logistics. As for the changes, we've seen reports about what kind of numbers the changes will mean, and they have been staggering.

As for your question, I don't support voting by mail. I personally think voting should be done in person, to ensure that no-one is voting under duress.

I am however arguing based on the reality of US voting traditions and the current US postal service. As long as you have voting by mail, it needs to be fairly distributed to everyone. I think it is very naive not to question this process given past events (census scandal), questions of motive (postmaster general's ties to competing industry) and the president's own statements.
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08-23-2020 , 04:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tame_deuces
The postal service is obviously a vast piece of infrastructure and logistics. As for the changes, we've seen reports about what kind of numbers the changes will mean, and they have been staggering.

As for your question, I don't support voting by mail. I personally think voting should be done in person, to ensure that no-one is voting under duress.

I am however arguing based on the reality of US voting traditions and the current US postal service. As long as you have voting by mail, it needs to be fairly distributed to everyone. I think it is very naive not to question this process given past events (census scandal), questions of motive (postmaster general's ties to competing industry) and the president's own statements.
The idea is the PostMaster and UPSP should have autonomy to run the post office to avoid political interference. You want oversight, sure, no problem. That's why the IG exist. However, congress with your support, is now trying to interfere with the operations of the post office, i.e. political intervention. There is no real evidence Trump has interfered with a post office, or this guy is doing anything nefarious, but you want him to stop taking action until he gets approval from politicians.
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08-23-2020 , 04:46 PM




Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald Trump
They want $25 billion for the post office. Now, they need that money in order to have the post office work so it can take all of these millions and millions of ballots. Now, in the meantime, they aren't getting there. But if they don't get those two items, that means you can't have universal mail-in voting because they're not equipped to have it. ... If we don't make a deal, that means they don't get the money. That means they can't have universal mail-in voting. They just can't have it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald Trump
If they're not going to approve a bill, and the post office, therefore, won't have the money, and if they're not going to approve a big bill — a bigger bill — and they're not going to have the $3 1/2 billion for the universal mail-in votes, how can you have those votes?
IHIV's sage response: you can't actually listen to anything Donald Trump says! LOL
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08-23-2020 , 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
The idea is the PostMaster should have autonomy to run the post office to avoid political interference. You want oversight, sure, no problem. However, congress with your support, is now trying to interfere with the operations of the post office, i.e. political intervention. There is no real evidence Trump has interfered with a post office, or this guy is doing anything nefarious, but you want him to stop taking action until he gets approval from politicians.
If I'm not mistaken, congress pretty much has the legal right to investigate whatever they want on a federal level. That can surely be abused. In this case however, I would agree that it is a good idea to do such an investigation. Questions have arisen for good reasons and they should be answered.

I'd also want the entire restructuring process to be done in a transparent manner, with expert credibility and bi-partisan support. That would likely also reduce the congressional interference you seem to dislike.
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08-23-2020 , 05:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tame_deuces
In this case however, I would agree that it is a good idea to do such an investigation. Questions have arisen for good reasons and they should be answered.

I don't think the reasons are good. I've seen nothing that indicates this guy is engaging in a conspiracy to commit election fraud.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tame_deuces
I'd also want the entire restructuring process to be done in a transparent manner, with expert credibility and bi-partisan support.
The left and right are not going to agree on what to do with the post office. Once side thinks the post office should not be used enmasse for elections to begin with, the other wants to give them $25B to handle ballots. Not to mention, any sort of restructuring is going to require immense cost cutting, which Democrats will refuse.

and..

PMG announces USPS restructuring plan

and

Facing public scrutiny, postmaster general halts changes blamed for delays until after election

That seems pretty transparent to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tame_deuces
That would likely also reduce the congressional interference you seem to dislike.
No, it won't, it will make them a political pinata, just like they are right now.
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08-23-2020 , 05:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
I don't think the reasons are good.



The left and right are not going to agree on what to do with the post office. Once side thinks the post office should not be used enmasse for elections to begin with, the other wants to give them $25B to handle ballots. Not to mention, any sort of restructuring is going to require immense cost cutting, which Democrats will refuse.

and..

PMG announces USPS restructuring plan

and

Facing public scrutiny, postmaster general halts changes blamed for delays until after election

That seems pretty transparent to me.



No, it won't, it will make them a political pinata, just like they are right now.
Actually, that article is a good example of why investigations are needed. The postmaster general stated that he would halt initiatives, not ongoing processes.

Initiatives already started continued after the statement was released, which shows the statement was worded with great care to ensure that the process could continue as already planned.

And it is behavior and rhetoric like that which would increase my level of suspicion and make me strongly support investigations.
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08-23-2020 , 05:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
The idea is the PostMaster and UPSP should have autonomy to run the post office to avoid political interference. You want oversight, sure, no problem. That's why the IG exist. However, congress with your support, is now trying to interfere with the operations of the post office, i.e. political intervention. There is no real evidence Trump has interfered with a post office, or this guy is doing anything nefarious, but you want him to stop taking action until he gets approval from politicians.
Your argument might make a modicum of sense if DeJoy wasn’t an absolute GOP stooge who was clearly appointed by the White House with a mandate to **** up the election. This is absolutely outside of usual norms in appointing PG’s.

https://www.latimes.com/business/sto...ster-dishonest

It’s not a ‘conspiracy theory’ when the POTUS has implicitly admitted his motivation in tweets. How you can defend this and say the DEM’s are the one’s politicizing is just proof of your utter inability to assess the issue critically without bias.
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08-23-2020 , 05:19 PM
It's not transparency to start a massive undertaking in secret, and then promise to stop it only after a massive public outcry in which one hasn't presented the planned scope of the operation and the justifications for it.

Actual transparency presents the whole plan and its justifications before taking action.
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08-23-2020 , 05:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EADGBE
Your argument might make a modicum of sense if DeJoy wasn’t an absolute GOP stooge who was clearly appointed by the White House with a mandate to **** up the election. This is absolutely outside of usual norms in appointing PG’s.

https://www.latimes.com/business/sto...ster-dishonest

It’s not a ‘conspiracy theory’ when the POTUS has implicitly admitted his motivation in tweets. How you can defend this and say the DEM’s are the one’s politicizing is just proof of your utter inability to assess the issue critically without bias.



Facing public scrutiny, postmaster general halts changes blamed for delays until after election
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08-23-2020 , 05:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
It's not transparency to start a massive undertaking in secret, and then promise to stop it only after a massive public outcry in which one hasn't presented the planned scope of the operation and the justifications for it.

Actual transparency presents the whole plan and its justifications before taking action.
PMG announces USPS restructuring plan

Last edited by itshotinvegas; 08-23-2020 at 05:21 PM. Reason: You only think it was done in secret...
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08-23-2020 , 05:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
That's the announcement that he had replaced the leadership wholesale, without prior warning or explanation. No mention was made of the changes to mail sorting machines.
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08-23-2020 , 05:30 PM
Which only proves there was indeed underhanded **** going down and he’s not willing to go to prison over this?
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08-25-2020 , 10:05 PM
Worked for the post office for five years and mail in voting is outdated as is the USPS in general. Seems to me a better idea would be online or in person with online having strict ID verification requirements such as DL number, SSN or tax ID number and birthday verification with a 4 security questions such as past credit accounts and adresses. This would undo any fraud and would be way more efficient.

USPS also needs to become privatized by Amazon or FedEx who couldn't possibly lose 71.3 billion for thirteen straight years. This postmaster general is obviously Trump's boy but Congress needs approve the online voting or this debate will come up in 2024 as well.

Sent from my moto e5 (XT1920DL) using Tapatalk
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08-25-2020 , 10:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6MaxLHE
Worked for the post office for five years and mail in voting is outdated as is the USPS in general. Seems to me a better idea would be online or in person with online having strict ID verification requirements such as DL number, SSN or tax ID number and birthday verification with a 4 security questions such as past credit accounts and adresses. This would undo any fraud and would be way more efficient.
That's a nice poll tax you got there.

Quote:
USPS also needs to become privatized by Amazon or FedEx who couldn't possibly lose 71.3 billion for thirteen straight years. This postmaster general is obviously Trump's boy but Congress needs approve the online voting or this debate will come up in 2024 as well.

Sent from my moto e5 (XT1920DL) using Tapatalk
USPS is profitable by any reasonable measure, except by the unreasonable and unique pension requirements foisted on them by Republicans to make them look unprofitable. And furthermore, they don't have to be profitable. They're a government service, one that is more efficient than UPS or FedEx for rural people.
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08-25-2020 , 10:34 PM
USPS employees do not have a pension it is a TSP which they pay into and are matched dollar for dollar up to three percent. They can't keep any carriers thousands of employees are quitting every month. Just seems to me our tax dollars could be better spent and time to privatize once and for all.
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08-25-2020 , 11:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EADGBE
Which only proves there was indeed underhanded **** going down and he’s not willing to go to prison over this?
It's even worse than that, because the changes are not actually stopping. He promised to stop initiatives. Changes already underway will keep on going.

Wording like that is pretty good sign that someone knows what they are doing is not on the level.

Or perhaps it is just me who loathe and despise weasel-wording with all my burning heart and generally find that anyone who uses it are always the absolute worst and most incompetent dregs the genepool has to offer. That could be it.
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