Trump-Ukraine Imbroglio: Who Is That Whistleblower? - Page 23 - Politics and Society -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

Exactly, the entire narrative of this story is built with conjecture, not supported with anything. I've been reading stuff for hours. What corruption did he not prosecute, that he should have, and was prosecuted after he left? There should be something that was prosecuted after he left, to which he purportedly dropped the ball on, I cant find anything.

The guy probably was corrupt. He was involved in Ukrainian politics as a prosecutor from 1980-2016 according to his affidavit. That means he survived communism and then the post-Soviet years and continued surviving. Either he was flexible, had dirt on people, or figured out some way to last. That is pure conjecture on my part, but if the entire West really did want him gone then it would seem like that is because he wasn't playing for team West.

Quote

09-27-2019 , 12:51 AM

#552

Luckbox Inc

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 61,693

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slighted

1) the entire world was wrong about Shokin obviously being corrupt

I see you've moved on to the whole world knowing this guy was dirty. I guess that makes it seem a little less partisan than just the West. Smart move.
And yeah. He probably was corrupt because who isn't? But how you want to keep hammering that like it is some proven fact and not completely politicized seems like a major fail on your part.

Quote

09-27-2019 , 12:54 AM

#553

Slighted

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 17,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by itshotinvegas

Okay, so you just posting fake new from Maddow, and can't support the conjecture with anything other than "they said so".

i've literally never seen an episode of maddow in my life, and even i know it isn't the insult that hannity lovers think it is.

he failed to prosecute corruption in government following the political uprising in 2014, he also failed to bring any cases against the military/police for killing 100 people and wounding 1000 in the protests around the uprising.

he literally failed to prosecute zlochevsky who is the guy you are arguing that biden for some nefarious reason paid to have him fired for an investigation that wasn't happening.

Quote

09-27-2019 , 12:54 AM

#554

Slighted

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 17,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/worl...okin-1.2591190

european union hails sacking of corrupt prosecutor...

Quote

09-27-2019 , 12:56 AM

#555

Slighted

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 17,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by itshotinvegas

Okay, so you just posting fake new from Maddow, and can't support the conjecture with anything other than "they said so".

i too can quote things.

Quote:

“Shokin was fired,” Kaleniuk observed, “because he failed to do investigations of corruption and economic crimes of President Yanukovych and his close associates, including Zlochevsky, and basically it was the big demand within society in Ukraine, including our organization and many other organizations, to get rid of this guy.”

Quote

09-27-2019 , 12:57 AM

#556

itshotinvegas

banned

Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 7,899

That EU thing is all about the UK ****ing up a prosecution, which is what the judge commented concerning the evidence they had. They pinned the blame for that fiasco on the Ukrainian PGO. If you really look, there is nothing of substance behind these claims he was dirty.

Quote

09-27-2019 , 01:00 AM

#557

Slighted

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 17,424

Quote:

Yuriy Lutsenko, the current prosecutor general, said that neither Hunter Biden nor Burisma were now the focus of an investigation. He added, however, that he was planning to offer details to U.S. Attorney General William Barr about Burisma board payments so American authorities could check whether Hunter Biden paid U.S. taxes on the income.

current prosecutor general debunking the nonsense, the president of ukraine has debunked the nonsense, the prosecutor general after Shokin has debunked the nonsense.

how far down the rabbit hole do you have to go to get to where you are? miles?

Quote

09-27-2019 , 01:00 AM

#558

Luckbox Inc

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 61,693

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slighted

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/worl...okin-1.2591190

european union hails sacking of corrupt prosecutor...

As Victoria Nuland famously said about Ukraine--"**** the EU".
Why do you think they have clean hands or were some disinterested party? Clearly they weren't.

Quote

09-27-2019 , 01:02 AM

#559

Rococo

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,397

Quote:

Originally Posted by itshotinvegas

Bullshit. You keep subtlely changing details to fit your argument. Blasey-Ford accusation was to thwart a political nominee, not to investigate Kavanagh for rape (that was her entire goal), the D's turned that accusation into an FBI investigation.

I'm not saying "any type". The investigation based on the accusation was to thwart a political appointee, for political purposes. You can claim it's standard for politicians to demand criminal investigations by the FBI, based on nothing more than accusations, but that's not how it works. One, that type of thing is handled by local jurisdiction, not the FBI. The D's requested the investigation, not some complaint made by the purported victim. The entire thing was a politically motivated investigation, which is why you don't like what Trump did, but do not have a problem with what the D's did for a SCOTUS nominee, and pretend I'm the one with the logic fail, after you ignore some salient similarities. If you were serious about wanting the rape investigated, you would of wanted the D's to do it right, and have the local authorities investigate it, and not have the FBI try and dig up dirt on a opposing political appointee, for political purposes.

Who the **** goes to congress to have a rape investigated? A lefty who does not want a pro life judge appointed. If she was concerned about the rape being investigated, she would of went to the local authorities, not the media, and damn sure not congress. Spare me the lack of concern for rape victims argument. It's not applicable when Blasey Ford herself has only used it for political purposes.

I give up. I dont think you even understand what I mean when I say that your argument fails basic formal logic. And if you dont grasp the concept, there is little point in debating whether the concept applies to your argument.

Quote

09-27-2019 , 01:02 AM

#560

Slighted

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 17,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

As Victoria Nuland famously said about Ukraine--"**** the EU".
Why do you think they have clean hands?

i'm not getting into everyone is an imperialist and we're all the bad guys. i gave you the answer to your question about how more than the US was saying the dude was corrupt.

Quote

09-27-2019 , 01:03 AM

#561

Slighted

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 17,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rococo

I give up. I dont think you even understand what I mean when I say that your argument fails basic formal logic.

i tried the 1, 2, 3, ???, profit style and that didnt work either.. too busy with readings i guess.

Quote

09-27-2019 , 01:04 AM

#562

itshotinvegas

banned

Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 7,899

Why has the case against Burisma not moved forward, or any case he was purportedly not prosecuting, for what ever reason? I can't find an answer to that question.

Quote

09-27-2019 , 01:05 AM

#563

Luckbox Inc

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 61,693

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slighted

i'm not getting into everyone is an imperialist and we're all the bad guys. i gave you the answer to your question about how more than the US was saying the dude was corrupt.

I never asked whatever question you are alleging I asked but ok. I said the whole thing is politicized and clearly it was. Which means the accusations that he was corrupt have to be taken with a serious grain of salt.

Quote

09-27-2019 , 01:09 AM

#564

Slighted

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 17,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by itshotinvegas

Why has the case against Burisma not moved forward, or any case he was purportedly not prosecuting, for what ever reason? I can't find an answer to that question.

burisma paid 180 million in fines. and 5 billion in tax liabilities.

Quote

09-27-2019 , 01:11 AM

#565

itshotinvegas

banned

Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 7,899

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slighted

burisma paid 180 million in fines. and 5 billion in tax liabilities.

JFC

Quote:

In 2017, Burisma said all investigations against the company and Zlochevsky had been closed after the company paid an additional 180 million hryvnias ($7.44 million) in taxes.

In 2016, a Kiev district court said it had found no evidence of criminal wrongdoing by Burisma president and owner Zlochevsky and ordered the Prosecutor General’s Office to remove him from the authorities’ wanted list.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1W91UG

You are a liar.

Last edited by itshotinvegas; 09-27-2019 at 01:21 AM.

Quote

09-27-2019 , 01:12 AM

#566

Slighted

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 17,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by itshotinvegas

JFC

You are a liar.

that says what i said, can you read.

Quote

09-27-2019 , 01:39 AM

#567

itshotinvegas

banned

Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 7,899

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slighted

that says what i said, can you read.

So the guy who was corrupt was fired for not prosecuting the company that was found not to be corrupt after he left, and they paid very little in back taxes as the end result, and that's what Biden wanted accomplished? Where is the evidence of corruption? The whole thing about this prosecutor not prosecuting corruption seems bogus, considering this fact.

Last edited by itshotinvegas; 09-27-2019 at 01:45 AM.

Quote

09-27-2019 , 01:59 AM

#568

itshotinvegas

banned

Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 7,899

I'm out I spend too much time here.

Quote

09-27-2019 , 02:02 AM

#569

Luckbox Inc

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 61,693

Quote:

Originally Posted by itshotinvegas

One would think that if the prosecutor wasn't doing his job as alleged, that sometime after he was fired and his replacement was up to speed, that you would start seeing about corruption cases in Ukraine.
And maybe there have been some that we miss because we aren't tuned into Ukrainian politics. Or maybe the whole "he was a corrupt prosecutor" is mostly bullshit.

Last edited by Luckbox Inc; 09-27-2019 at 02:14 AM.

Quote

09-27-2019 , 02:05 AM

#570

Lawnmower Man

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 4,646

Quote:

Originally Posted by itshotinvegas

I'm out I spend too much time here.

Them whistles go WOOO WOOOOOO dawg.

Quote

09-27-2019 , 02:25 AM

#571

PairTheBoard

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 10,072

Shokin was replaced by Yuriy Lutsenko who also turned out to be corrupt. They are both mentioned in the Whistleblower Complaint along with two of Lutsenko's cronies who Giuliani met with early in 2019 to enlist in the Russian-Trump Crowdstrike-Biden disinformation campaign. These four Ukrainians are the sources for recent articles in The Hill serving to disseminate the propaganda. Fox news has followed The Hill's lead.

PairTheBoard

Quote

09-27-2019 , 05:38 AM

#572

Jsmith27

banned

Join Date: Jun 2019 Posts: 3,984

Quote:

Originally Posted by markksman

Rudy being involved at all is a huge problem. That Rudy is involved more than anyone else is beyond the pale. The guy is Trump’s personal attorney. He should not been a part of any of this. Unless of course it was for his clients personal gai .

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign...-ukraine-story

"2.) If the firing had nothing to do with the Burisma case, as Biden has adamantly claimed, why would Burisma’s American lawyers contact the replacement prosecutor within hours of the termination and urgently seek a meeting in Ukraine to discuss the case?

Ukrainian prosecutors say they have tried to get this information to the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) since the summer of 2018, fearing it might be evidence of possible violations of U.S. ethics laws. First, they hired a former federal prosecutor to bring the information to the U.S. attorney in New York, who, they say, showed no interest. Then, the Ukrainians reached out to President Trump’s personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani."

Quote

09-27-2019 , 05:41 AM

#573

Jsmith27

banned

Join Date: Jun 2019 Posts: 3,984

Amazing how so many people here became instant experts in Ukraine politics. I am stunned by your guys knowledge and confidence in who is corrupt and who is not corrupt in Ukraine, very impressive!

Quote

09-27-2019 , 07:45 AM

#574

Max Cut

Guest

Posts: n/a

https://twitter.com/amconmag/status/1177523272780525568

Quote:

A Flagrant Abuse of Power
What I mean is this: whether or not Trump offered a quid pro quo to the Ukrainian president over the Biden investigation, it is becoming clear that he subverted the normal national security and foreign policy process for the sake of personal advantage, by making his personal lawyer a de facto US envoy.

If Trump gets away with this, it sets a terrible precedent. It is corrupt, anti-democratic, and dangerous for America.

There is no question that Trump has committed a serious abuse of power here, and it seems very clear that he abused his power solely for his own perceived political benefit. The White House’s version of the conversation by itself is fairly damning, but the context in which that conversation took place is even more so. Trump had ordered a hold on military assistance to Ukraine a few days earlier. The Ukrainian government would have understood that the decision to withhold the assistance was linked to the president’s desire to start a Biden investigation.

Quote

09-27-2019 , 07:48 AM

#575

Max Cut

Guest

Posts: n/a

Pretty quiet in here. Should probably merge the Ukraine thread back into this one. At least keep the Biden misinfo prop over there if you're going to have a seperate Ukraine thread.

Quote

Page 23 of 171

First

3 13 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 33 43 73 123

Last

Post Reply Subscribe

...

Page 23 of 171

First

3 13 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 33 43 73 123

Last