In the spirit of the recent "Hitler was a Socialist" thread, I'd like to present my opinion on a more contemporary matter. I think that Trump is a leader who has anti-democratic and authoritarian tendencies, and I also think that these tendencies pose a danger to liberty and democracy in the US, and by extension, the rest of the world.

I compiled this list of things Trump has said or done to support this thesis in a previous thread, which I feel supports my claim:

- Calling the media "the enemy of the people"
- Calling for political opponents to be investigated, prosecuted and jailed under thin pretences while subverting the judicial process for political allies
- Wanting to throw military parades for himself and general fetishisation of the military
- Suggesting that if he loses (or even if he didn't win the popular vote) then that would be due to voter fraud with no evidence
- Suggesting postponing the election
- Repeatedly suggesting that he might remain in office after a second term
- Has his own personal propaganda machine in Fox News and OANN
- Has repeatedly said that he can "do whatever he wants" regardless of Congress or the Courts
- Routinely interferes or attempts to interfere in the functioning of the justice department to his own benefit, when it is supposed to be independent
- Routinely suggests that various public figures who are against him politically are guilty of treason
- Acts like a cult leader with proclamations such as "I, alone, can fix it", and his base are very reminiscent of a cult in their unwavering support
- Does not have any respect for truth or facts. The truth is what is convenient for him at the time, and repeats his lies loudly and often so as to make his followers believe they are true (this works very well on simpletons)
- Foments divisiveness and then uses it to his advantage to generate scapegoats
- Speaks highly of authoritarian strongmen around the world.

Most of the above are straight out of the Nazi playbook, and I'm sure I've missed plenty.

I would like to keep this separate from the Trump thread, if possible.

Democracy is just a myth. Don't fall for it.

/thread

I mean yeah Trump is a bad guy for sure, but if democracy ever existed its leaders would be have couped, assassinated or worse a long time ago.
They might have tried it a time or two in like ancient Greece or with the Iroquois-- but I don't think it would last long these days.

Just change the title to mythical danger to make the flat earthers happy and then see if an actual discussion happens.

Welcome back, Luckbox. I, for one, am flattered that you elected to come out of hiding to post in my thread!

I do feel your outlook is a tad pessimistic, but hopefully we'll get some other posters in here and see what they think, and then afterwards maybe we could take an average.

I think it's not even a debate that Trump is a danger to democracy. This is the problem with electing a business leader who is used to having ultimate authority in his world, to a position that's designed to have limited power.

That being said the system of checks and balances doesn't really work when everyone is getting bought off by the same few billionaires.

It's nice to see the Dems actually fighting for this stimulus package but all of us regulars pretty much know it's just an election year stunt. Come Dec it will be business as usual and no one will really care if Trump has appointed himself king.

I didn't think it was a debate that Hitler was a fascist, but apparently there's quite a lot up for debate these days....

Hey thanks. I haven't really gone anywhere-- just spending more time in POG lately. But yeah I'll be on team Victor in this thread.
I do think there might be some interesting points that can be fleshed out here-- I'm not sure what they are yet as I'm still on first cup of coffee, but I do think the 'Trump is a threat to democracy' is a somewhat dangerous narrative, as it implies that everything was going ok before Trump arrived on the scene and that the problems of the world can be solved by removing Trump from power. And some problems might be like the 'Internet political discourse' issue, but they'll be minor in comparison to the problems that predated Trump and will continue to exist after he's gone.

We live in a fact free world.

The problem is when reality hits it (like with covid) things don't go so well.

That old saw about Hitler being a socialist is just alt-right spew. I'm surprised it got as much respect as it did here. Patient moderators.

Oh. I didn't realise this was going to be a red team/blue team thing. I thought maybe we could all just get along....


Yeah, I don't mean to imply that as soon as we get rid of Trump everything will be hunky-dory. But I do think that getting rid of Trump should be a priority, in the sense and to the extent that he is a clear and present danger, and until and unless that is resolved, progress on other fronts will not be possible.

Unfortunately, every "xyz" spew has an audience these days. I could probably go on Twitter tomorrow and find a loyal following for my new theory that Joe Biden is an alien from the planet Xeltor.

Contemporary political discourse seems to operate largely on the basis that it takes orders of magnitude more effort to debunk bullshit than it does to spew it.

Godel a bit and then later me in a different but slightly more direct attack pointed out that the constitution utself is a danger to democracy.

Trump is definitely a particular danger himself although I very doubt it will be him because he is too silly and too old but he has kicked the door open to the future presidents as danger. If he wins again then he might kick the door wide open but even if he loses it's going to be very tough for the usa to push the door to.

I missed the Hitler thread but I don't see too much of a difference in the authoritarianism of fascism vs the authoritarianism of socialism-- at least in the various incarnations of socialism that we've seen-- as most 'socialism' is just socialism in name only and it's important to remember that Hitler, Stalin, Obama and Trump have a lot lot more in common with each other than they do with any peoples or political movements.

its not really alt right. its CIA red-scare stuff from decades ago.

actually, I think the altright likes Hitler.

'Alt-right' as a term gets horribly misused. It's supposed to be 'white supremacist right' but ends up being used as a pejorative for anyone 'on the right' who isn't Mitt Romney.

The bolded is just stupid.

Everybody knows that Joe Biden is from Nimbus III.

It isn't my intention to 'Luckbox' this thread and turn it into a conspiracy thread as it's your thread and this is ground that was covered in the media thread, but a topic like 'Trump and Democracy' is definitely ripe for Luckboxing.
But in order to view Trump as threat #1 to Democracy you do have to start with the premise that he was democratically elected in the first place instead of placed in office by his handlers as the media creation that he is. And as I don't start with that premise. So it'll be hard to find too much common ground here.
And it's probably a bit fatalistic and incorrect for me to assume that nothing positive can ever happen and I do hope that some sort of 'normalcy' can be achieved in a Biden presidency (I'm not optimistic there). But if that just means continuing the destruction of all non-Sunni mena counties and people going back to sleep it won't be worth it.

There is already a large portion of the right in America that has already abandoned democracy and would prefer a monarchy of some sort. I'm guessing their incentives are the fear of losing power to minorities and the large ideological rift with the left.
I'm on my cell now and have something to do. Can't reference sources. Just wanted to quickly get that in.

I'm so sick of Nimbus denialists, the Xeltorians are some of the worst, but no where near as bad as the Excelciorists.

Glad to find a fellow Nimbonite.

ya I mean words change meanings. and they can mean multiple things. for the most part, as you have indicated just now, its not too difficult to understand what is meeant by the term.

2020 and still people belive that democracy is good

lol how dumb can people be?

it was "democracy" that forbid americans play the loved game of poker with rest of the world

while on "non democracy" countries people are free

Donald Trump as leader of any form of government is a danger because he is incompetent, and he hires incompetent people around him.

I remember when he was elected 4 years ago there was a lot of noise about how he would dismantle our government and install himself dictator. I thought those fears were unfounded then, and 4 years later history has largely proved me right.

All things considered, especially the Coronavirus pandemic, our system of government has weathered the storm of an incompetent executive branch fairly well. I think most of the current narratives of him actually being able to install himself as dictator and/or compromise the upcoming election are media derived gaslighting.

As far as Presidents that have actually pushed the boundaries of the office and encroached into the other branches, I don't know where Trump lands on that list, but he certainly isn't the top.

Uh, he just declared a complete usurpation of Congress's power of the purse. And he has the full backing of the only person who could stop him.

That is what the MSM wants you to believe. Don’t buy into their narrative and spread their propaganda!