Trump is a danger to democracy - Page 4 - Politics and Society -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

Let’s stop for a second and ask .....

In your opinion , around which time you feel the majority of the media’s been feeding crap to us ?
2016 ?, 2008? , 1995? , 1960 ?

And is there any media you think says the truth and if yes , which one ?
Thx .

Ps: what is the difference between truth and facts 0o ?

Quote

08-11-2020 , 12:29 AM

#77

Montrealcorp

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 13,285

FWIW, any politician that governs only for its base and not for the majority of the population ( meaning you need to compromise sometimes) , isn’t governing in a democracy but ruling in an authoritarian state.

Unfortunately trump excel in that ....
Just to see how many people he likes to fire gives you an hint .

Quote

08-11-2020 , 02:46 AM

#78

ChiddyBang

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 2,873

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montrealcorp

Makes the case against democracy by accident!

Quote

08-11-2020 , 03:26 AM

#79

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 46,838

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiddyBang

Makes the case against democracy by accident!

Maybe makes the case against too much partisanship and divisiveness within a democracy.

Quote

08-11-2020 , 03:36 AM

#80

ChiddyBang

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 2,873

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

Maybe makes the case against too much partisanship and divisiveness within a democracy.

Nah do the work

Quote

08-11-2020 , 05:35 AM

#81

Montrealcorp

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 13,285

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

Maybe makes the case against too much partisanship and divisiveness within a democracy.

+1
For a lot , politics is only a game to be won, not thinking what it really represent at the end .
It got massive social and economic consequences when prolonged too long.
A divided country fightings more on ideology instead of being pragmatic isn’t a good strategy and you see now Russia and China getting stronger everyday and the US dollar crashing based on bad politics ...
Trump ain’t good for democracy and the USA as a whole.

Quote

08-11-2020 , 07:07 AM

#82

bundy5

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 8,136

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montrealcorp

I think what you really mean is Trump isn't good for America unless you can point me to actions that he has directly taken to undermine the November election over and above what both parties can be guilty of.

Quote

08-11-2020 , 07:12 AM

#83

d2_e4

certifiable moron

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 12,011

Quote:

Originally Posted by bundy5

Words and actions can be ant-democratic even if they are not "directly taken to undermine the November election" (although he has already floated the trial balloon of postponing it).

Maybe try reading OP if you want to participate in the thread? The line "I can't be bothered to read OP but I disagree with it anyway" doesn't cover you in glory.

Quote

08-11-2020 , 09:03 AM

#84

micro dong

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 588

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montrealcorp

All media has always reflected the views of the person who pays the bills. That's its purpose. Just watching CNN will leave you as detached from reality as if you just watch Fox News. So you have to watch both as they will both hide different things. On facts over truth, ask Joe Journalism is a lot easier nowadays now that you don't even have to be completely literate or leave your desk thanks to grammarly and twitter so there is no need for anyone to be hired who won't do exactly what you want them to do.

Quote

08-11-2020 , 09:28 AM

#85

Luckbox Inc

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 61,047

So who are the people on team media in this thread? I'm collecting a list of names for when the revolution starts.
Is all it takes for people to support the media Trump calling them the enemy of the people? Seems exploitable.

Quote

08-11-2020 , 09:40 AM

#86

d2_e4

certifiable moron

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 12,011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

I don't really want to make this thread a referendum on the media, as it detracts from the general point. You can criticise the media without using terms like "enemy of the people"/"enemy of the state" which are associated exclusively with totalitarian regimes.

The target of the phrase is not really that important to the point I'm trying to make in the OP.

Quote

08-11-2020 , 11:58 AM

#87

micro dong

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 588

Quote:

Originally Posted by d2_e4

The left and their obsession with terminology.

If anything Trump should be applauded for making the left expand their vocabulary from {bigot, nazi, racist, homophobe} to include terms like {problematic, terf, etc.}.

Quote

08-11-2020 , 12:01 PM

#88

d2_e4

certifiable moron

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 12,011

Quote:

Originally Posted by micro dong

The left and their obsession with terminology.

Words matter. What is this obsession you speak of?

Quote

08-11-2020 , 12:11 PM

#89

Doctor Zeus

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 11,723

Quote:

Originally Posted by micro dong

This thread started on the back of a right wing person setting up a thread about language & terminology.

Quote

08-11-2020 , 12:11 PM

#90

micro dong

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 588

Words can mean different things depending on context or cultural background. For example Amercian feminists think being called a sea word is worse than being shot whereas it's a friendly term for an Australian bogan. It's not appropriate to take exception to everything you hear that might sound a little off to you personally.

Quote

08-11-2020 , 12:11 PM

#91

formula72

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 4,304

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

I think a combination of different things go into how the election day sausage is made-- first and foremost being that it is a 'no lose' situation for the ruling class-- both candidates are universally part of the same system. It's like how in Iran the mullahs get to decide who is even allowed to run and then the people vote. That isn't democracy. It's a theocracy/oligarchy with some democratic mechanisms. The difference here it is that it is the party machinery, big money, and the media that take the place of the mullahs.
But I also do believe that actual voting fraud is at work too in some of the election results-- either through electronic voting machines or fraudulent ballots or other means to produce the desired results.

So the president isn't decided before election night? It just doesn't matter who wins?

Quote

08-11-2020 , 12:56 PM

#92

Black Peter

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,921

Quote:

Originally Posted by d2_e4

In the spirit of the recent "Hitler was a Socialist" thread, I'd like to present my opinion on a more contemporary matter. I think that Trump is a leader who has anti-democratic and authoritarian tendencies, and I also think that these tendencies pose a danger to liberty and democracy in the US, and by extension, the rest of the world.

I compiled this list of things Trump has said or done to support this thesis in a previous thread, which I feel supports my claim:

- Calling the media "the enemy of the people"
- Calling for political opponents to be investigated, prosecuted and jailed under thin pretences while subverting the judicial process for political allies
- Wanting to throw military parades for himself and general fetishisation of the military
- Suggesting that if he loses (or even if he didn't win the popular vote) then that would be due to voter fraud with no evidence
- Suggesting postponing the election
- Repeatedly suggesting that he might remain in office after a second term
- Has his own personal propaganda machine in Fox News and OANN
- Has repeatedly said that he can "do whatever he wants" regardless of Congress or the Courts
- Routinely interferes or attempts to interfere in the functioning of the justice department to his own benefit, when it is supposed to be independent
- Routinely suggests that various public figures who are against him politically are guilty of treason
- Acts like a cult leader with proclamations such as "I, alone, can fix it", and his base are very reminiscent of a cult in their unwavering support
- Does not have any respect for truth or facts. The truth is what is convenient for him at the time, and repeats his lies loudly and often so as to make his followers believe they are true (this works very well on simpletons)
- Foments divisiveness and then uses it to his advantage to generate scapegoats
- Speaks highly of authoritarian strongmen around the world.

Most of the above are straight out of the Nazi playbook, and I'm sure I've missed plenty.

I would like to keep this separate from the Trump thread, if possible.

The bottom line is that most leaders, and especially the fringe elements on both sides, want to be dictators and are a danger to democracy. They all think they know better than the common person, and they're willing to use whatever tactics are available to get what they want.

The true test of a country's Constitution is how effective it is in denying these power mongers their true desires.

Quote

08-11-2020 , 12:58 PM

#93

d2_e4

certifiable moron

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 12,011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Peter

The bottom line is that most leaders, and especially the fringe elements on both sides, want to be dictators and are a danger to democracy. They all think they know better than the common person, and they're willing to use whatever tactics are available to get what they want.

The true test of a country's Constitution is how effective it is in denying these power mongers their true desires.

Bolded well may be true, but I am concerned about the side currently in power.

Quote

08-11-2020 , 02:42 PM

#94

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 46,838

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Peter

To a large extent this is correct and it's very hard to deal with in a partisan country because people forget when it's their side is in power. Beat trump hopefully, maybe even get a decent president again one day but if the flaws aren't addressed then it's just a matter of time.

Quote

08-11-2020 , 02:49 PM

#95

d2_e4

certifiable moron

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 12,011

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

No US president in modern history, from either side, has ever been this nakedly and outwardly anti-democratic and in awe of authoritarian rulers around the world. Stop both-sidesing for once in your life.

I could literally post that Trump is a fat orange moron and you'd find a way to respond that everyone is a far orange moron at heart, really.

Quote

08-11-2020 , 02:52 PM

#96

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 46,838

fail you comprehension reading in

Quote

08-11-2020 , 02:56 PM

#97

d2_e4

certifiable moron

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 12,011

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

fail you comprehension reading in

No. You responded to a both-sidesing argument agreeing and adding your own both-sidesing argument, and you have a long and illustrious history of making both-sidesing arguments. If that's not what you meant, get better at communicating what you mean.

Quote

08-11-2020 , 02:59 PM

#98

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 46,838

No. Repeatedly being wrong wont make you right. My post is fine, I'm sure you can understand it if you drop your odd preconceptions.

Play it with a straight bat. Or don't, whatever ...

Quote

08-11-2020 , 03:04 PM

#99

d2_e4

certifiable moron

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 12,011

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

No. Repeatedly being wrong wont make you right. My post is fine, I'm sure you can understand it if you drop your odd preconceptions.

Play it with a straight bat. Or don't, whatever ...

Your writing style is pretty ambiguous at the best of times, and I'm sure this is by design. I am not spending any time or effort deciphering what you "really meant" in every post.