Transgender persons participation in sports and gaming - Politics and Society -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

I have extracted the posts about transgender persons participation is sports and gaming into this thread. Please keep posts itt focused on that topic.

Last edited by browser2920; 01-04-2024 at 02:36 PM.

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01-03-2024 , 11:34 PM

gregorio

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The end of women's chess as we know it.

FM Yosha Iglesias has etched her name in chess history and is set to become the first-ever transgender player to fulfill all the requirements for the woman international master title.
https://www.chess.com/news/view/yosh...ransgender-wim

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Iglesias' achievement comes just a month after FIDE came under heavy criticism for a controversial new policy, which states that transgender women are banned from taking part in official female-only events until the federation conducts "further analysis" that can take up to two years. Iglesias called the new policy "appalling," suggesting it could lead to depression and suicide attempts by trans girls.

The abuse hasn't stopped [see screenshot of some of the messages she got in the Tweet below] Iglesias says, as she has received hundreds of messages of hatred. However, that doesn't stop her, thanks to a flood of congratulary messages.

"Some players told me that they quit chess to transition but that my story inspired them to get back to competition. In general, we trans women share such a bond of sisterhood that the happiness of one of us is the joy of all the others. For me, it was the best reward of all."

https://twitter.com/IglesiasYosha/st...03916401942721

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01-04-2024 , 01:49 AM

uke_master

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Originally Posted by gregorio

Interenet is hard so I can't tell with that first line whether you are joking or not, but regardless that is very cool, congrats to her!

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01-04-2024 , 04:09 AM

chillrob

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It's beyond ridiculous that there is a special division for women's chess to begin with. They shouldn't have to compete against men, with their extra size and muscle mass which helps them to move tiny pieces two inches at a time? It's really insulting to women and implies that they don't have the same intellectual capacity as that of men.

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01-04-2024 , 04:44 AM

Bobo Fett

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Originally Posted by uke_master

Interenet is hard so I can't tell with that first line whether you are joking or not, but regardless that is very cool, congrats to her!

Given the poster, 100% sarcasm IMO.

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01-04-2024 , 04:58 AM

Elrazor

losing momentum

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 13,806

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Originally Posted by chillrob

My earlier post on this:

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Originally Posted by Elrazor

While men and women are as intelligent on average, there are sex differences in certain aspects within mathematics. For example, men are better at mechanical and visual spacial reasoning and women are better at calculus. This, plus greater male variability mean men are likely to dominate something like chess to a similar extent to physical domains.

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01-04-2024 , 07:31 AM

Trolly McTrollson

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Originally Posted by chillrob

Why do you think the women who actually play chess seem to be okay with it?

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01-04-2024 , 07:46 AM

Meisner

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Join Date: Jun 2022 Posts: 849

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Originally Posted by uke_master

Interenet is hard so I can't tell with that first line whether you are joking or not, but regardless that is very cool, congrats to her!

Yes. I say congratulations to all the men who supplant women in women’s sports. In fact, goodbye to all women’s safe spaces and rights.

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01-04-2024 , 08:06 AM

chillrob

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Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson

Why do you think the women who actually play chess seem to be okay with it?

Because it gives them a better chance to feel like they won something, obviously.

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01-04-2024 , 09:03 AM

#10

Trolly McTrollson

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Originally Posted by chillrob

Because it gives them a better chance to feel like they won something, obviously.

But you just said it’s very insulting to imply they have less intellectual capacity than men.

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01-04-2024 , 11:46 AM

#11

chillrob

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Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson

But you just said it’s very insulting to imply they have less intellectual capacity than men.

Please explain what you think the contradiction is.

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01-04-2024 , 11:50 AM

#12

Inso0

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Originally Posted by chillrob

Because it gives them a better chance to feel like they won something, obviously.

I see you, chillrob.

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01-04-2024 , 11:56 AM

#13

Luckbox Inc

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This is probably the time to point out that what applies to groups of individuals doesn't necessarily apply to individuals within that group

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01-04-2024 , 01:43 PM

#14

uke_master

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Originally Posted by Meisner

Yes. I say congratulations to all the men who supplant women in women’s sports. In fact, goodbye to all women’s safe spaces and rights.

How exactly do you get from a trans woman receiving the WIM title (which doesn't prevent or supplant any other woman from getting that title) to "goodbye to all women's safe spaces"? Quite a leap.

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01-04-2024 , 01:50 PM

#15

rickroll

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Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 22,760

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Originally Posted by uke_master

How exactly do you get from a trans woman receiving the WIM title (which doesn't prevent or supplant any other woman from getting that title) to "goodbye to all women's safe spaces"? Quite a leap.

uke, why is it that you think they have a separate division for females in the first place?

i think you should take a look at esports, in which trans women dominate all those female only events

if in 10 years the top 50 female chess players are all trans, don't you think we'll then need to create a new cisgender female division?

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01-04-2024 , 01:53 PM

#16

Meisner

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Originally Posted by uke_master

How exactly do you get from a trans woman receiving the WIM title (which doesn't prevent or supplant any other woman from getting that title) to "goodbye to all women's safe spaces"? Quite a leap.

Eventually more and more men will be competing in women's sports and will dominate many of them. College swimming, MMA, etc. We're already seeing it. It's just going to get worse from here. This is the tip of the iceberg. Just the tip.

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01-04-2024 , 01:58 PM

#17

Meisner

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Originally Posted by rickroll

I have an idea. Since human beings exist in a binary, why not just separate sports that way? You'd have two groups, mens and womens.

You could further subdivide them as appropriate such as weight classes for sports like judo or wrestling. That would probably even out the competitive fairness.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/mma/fall...cused-breaking

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01-04-2024 , 02:01 PM

#18

Luckbox Inc

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Originally Posted by rickroll

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Originally Posted by Meisner

Seems fine. Cis women had their day and that's over now.

There was a time when they weren't even allowed to compete at all.

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01-04-2024 , 02:17 PM

#19

uke_master

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Originally Posted by rickroll

I play chess, and it is very male dominated. I think woman only divisions help create a more welcoming and inclusive environment for women and help to promote the game for women. Those arguments apply to trans women as well. Seeing as there is a single trans WIM thus far I am not at all worried about some slippery slope where the top 50 females are all trans in 10 years. That sounds preposterous. Getting from 1 to "top 50" is a leap.

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01-04-2024 , 02:21 PM

#20

chillrob

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Quote:

Originally Posted by uke_master

I play chess, and it is very male dominated. I think woman only divisions help create a more welcoming and inclusive environment for women and help to promote the game for women. Those arguments apply to trans women as well. Seeing as there is a single trans WIM thus far I am not at all worried about some slippery slope where the top 50 females are all trans in 10 years. That sounds preposterous. Getting from 1 to "top 50" is a leap.

So the other tournaments allow all players. These tournaments allow only women, and you think they are the ones with an "inclusive environment"?

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01-04-2024 , 02:22 PM

#21

jjjou812

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Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 5,684

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Originally Posted by Meisner

MMA is dominated by trans athletes? Cite?

I always love when journalists resort to writing articles based on Twitter posts and deleted social media as source material. Makes you question their credentials as well as the fakes that rely on their writings.

BTW, this is all covered in another thread.

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01-04-2024 , 02:26 PM

#22

uke_master

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Originally Posted by chillrob

So the other tournaments allow all players. These tournaments allow only women, and you think they are the ones with an "inclusive environment"?

That's exactly right. It's about creating spaces within the chess community where women generally also feel comfortable competing.

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01-04-2024 , 02:29 PM

#23

Luckbox Inc

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There are already like 3 trans sports threads

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01-04-2024 , 02:30 PM

#24

corpus vile

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Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

There are already like 3 trans sports threads

This one is different tho

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01-04-2024 , 02:30 PM

#25

jjjou812

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Quote:

Originally Posted by chillrob

So the other tournaments allow all players. These tournaments allow only women, and you think they are the ones with an "inclusive environment"?

So by this logic, marathons that have different subdivisions such as senior, under 18, disabled and womens are less "inclusive", right?

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