Talk to literally any woman who has sat down at a poker table with men and she will tell you why women appreciate these kinds of spaces.

Some sports and competitive hobbies that aren't necessarily affected by sex differences have a separate division for women simply for recruitment purposes. Chess is an example, where FIDE has the WCC which is open and the WWCC which is women only.

Heteronormative men are raging *******s who can’t handle losing to women or really being around women. That’s why we have women’s chess leagues and women’s snooker leagues. It’s no longer as fashionable to scream at women in sport, so now bullying cis-men have moved on to yelling at trans women who want to play in regional snooker tournaments.

If this was the case then obviously the WCC wouldn't be an open division.

The legitimacy of women’s chess leagues is entirely separate from the issue of whether transgender people who identify as women should be allowed to play in them. AFAICT they have no special advantage and no cis-man (bio-man?) is ever going to pretend to be trans to get an edge at a Seattle womens snooker tournament. It’s just another paper-thin excuse to scream at trans women.

It can be both, not all arguments are from the same cloth. Some will make them because they dislike or distrust transgender people, some will do it because they have opinions on how we should organize sports.

While there is to reason to suspect the potential of cis-women in snooker and chess to be less than that of men, it is still the reality that men are dominating. I don’t know too much about snooker, but I know this is why FIDE / chess has an open division and a women-only division - to recruit more female players.

I pretty much agree (and my agreeing with you is a rare and wonderful thing ). I found your link quite jaw dropping actually mainly for the reasons you gave.

And no one claimed that. So strawman on as always.

Sure.

That could be argued across many areas. Snooker, Darts, Curling, Equestrian Events, Gun/Bow Shooting Events, and the list goes on.

The discernable advantage attached to biology could be argued in many of these areas to not be attached to biology specifically or primarily even if biological males would still have some edges in hand eye coordination and other areas.

But that was never the point.

The point was to find a place where biological women could compete for excellence at the top of the sport/activity, where it would not happen if they had to compete against Biological men.

In the cases above you might argue it is 'participation rates' more than biological advantage that drove the need to seperate women from men. More men participating just meant more at the top, thus women would have few to no places.

And yet the inverse is true with trans women. Despite tiny participation rates, we increasingly see them at the very pinnacle of these sports/activities, in such a way, often that cis women have no ability to even compete.

Do we address that or ignore that? And in ignoring that undue the entire original intent of giving women (cis women specifically) a place they can also compete for excellence against peers?

If you really believe this you are just delusional.

The 'men could not handle the losses' is just nonsense as any woman good enough to compete in any mens circuit is welcome to in all pro sports that I know of and most sports generally.

lolololololololol, please go to the women in poker subforum and tell them men don’t have an issue losing pots to women.

it is just an impossibility in Trolly's mind that OTHERS can care about the existence of, and reason for the creation of 'women's division' in sports.

I legit believe to him and others like e_d they have such a casual dismissal of their being any value in sport, (and I've known academics who do) that they cannot comprehend anything worth while being missed if the reason most women's sport was created for, no longer exists.

Women prior were simply denied a place to compete with like skilled peers where they could pursue their own excellence, prior to 'Women's Divisions' being formed.

Trans women entering sport are proving increasingly that 'cis women' will have less and less a place in the women's divisions if the numbers of trans women continue to increase. You cannot have such high level success with such tiny participate rates currently, that trans have, and be blind to the impact of numbers.

Trolly simply does not care. Cis women can simply be uncompetitive and suck it up. No skin off his back.

As someone who actually played sports all his life and we had the top girls on our soccer teams until they could no longer compete and we had the sole woman who wanted to play rugby, on our team, because there was no women's league, I can tell you are flat out wrong.

The reason for women's division in sport is not, as you need to pretend, that men could not handle losing to them.

Most, and i mean MOST, men's divisions are in fact OPEN divisions where any woman good enough canplay.

You of course will ignore that as it does not fit your agenda

Scream and yell? I didn't even see anything in all caps?

Pretty sure people tried that with Zi and Zir. If I remember correctly, the republicans went ultra nutso about how privileged they were for getting to make up new pronouns.

Count me among the people who see so little value in sport that they don't see the need for women's divisions at all.

Actually I think sport has a large negative value in society, glorifying those who are born much bigger and stronger than the average person. They then tend to get away with doing negative things for which the average person would be shunned or put in prison, especially for male athletes and their abuses of women.

As a society, I think it is a contradiction to say we place great value in physical achievements, while ignoring the fact that men simply have a huge advantage over women in pretty much all areas of physical strength and dexterity. You can't place great value in sport and still somehow expect to have a society with no discrimination against women.

As transwomen start to win more and more contests, I hope it shines a light on how counterproductive for society these contests are to begin with.

Cool, I never heard about that but will definitely look into it. Of course the reaction you note is terrible.

And while i disagree with your opinion immensely, I don't have any issue with you holding a different opinion to the one I do.

I think sport (physical activity) is every bit as key to most children's development as the academic pursuits are. Especially for young boys. While many sports (especially the most popular N.American ones) do emphasize size and strength that is not the key to all sport. Balance, agility, ability to think quickly and other aspects are key underliars of all sport. Things that are good to develop regardless of whether one pursues any thing meaningful in sport.

Also team work, cooperation, comradery and leadership are all developed in sport play. I've known many anti-social young men, who thru sport, learned to moderate and be more sociable than the school or family life was steering them to be.

"Getting away with things", I assume is a reference to the celebrity aspect, something that applies to famous musicians, actors and the celebrity rich. Not a reason to blame sport specifically unless you blame all such other endeavors and would see them all eliminated.

I also don't understand your point on the "contradiction"? Are you against Grades? Scholarships? "Degrees"? that can be argued to glorify those born with an intelligence advantage or with access to better support and schooling?

These are contradictory. In most weight loss surgeries aren't you removing a portion of a functioning organ? And might not some regret that in the future? Should weight loss surgery be taken off the table in that case?

Men perform better at cue games. An indifferently talented male competing in the women's division is going to win everything. QED.

Is that proven or at least indicated in data?

while I tend to believe men do have an advantage another explanation can simply be that men are drawn to these activities in higher numbers thus they will have more high performers.

Ex Dominican Republic and baseball. They are not better via any advantage other than large numbers pursuing the dream.

Regardless the end result is the same, and that is that if you had only one Open division it would be entirely populated b y men.


The opposite dynamic we see with Trans women were despite tiny numbers compared to CIS women going thru the filter system, the trans women outperform at massively disproportionate levels.

What sport will trans women ruin next? Stay tuned!

I will continue to post on that Trolly, since you guys want to pretend that without data this is not a thing.

Cant believe this example of non self aware manslpaining.

Your perception of a need could not be more utterly irrelevant.

If women want to play sports and there is enough participation then their will be divisions.

WTF.

mansplaining.........incredible

Right wing protesters show up armed with AR15s. They are met by Antifa counter protesters also armed with AR15's.

What could go wrong?



Right wingers not comfortable with the idea leftist protesters may start arming up.
One hot head in either group, will lead to a mass slaughter in both groups and anyone who ends up in between. America is in for some serious violence in its near future.

Ironically I could see this leading to real gun control laws, as the States struggle to keep armed groups from facing off.

2A works best when society is mostly civil or, alternatively, when only one side arms up.