This is just silly. Mothers/Fathers are very clearly gendered terms. So a trans man who is identifying as a man would quite reasonably prefer the masculine term. They would be a "son" and an "uncle" and "brother" and a "father" and all the other masculine versions of terms. Trying to suggest a trans man who is a parent should go by "mother" is clearly inconsistent with this.

But look, I know this can be hard for you all. But you don't have to make this all up from first principles every time like you are Elon Musk trying to solve the Ukraine crisis. Just see if the trans man parent wants to be called mother or father. If you are terribly confused, it is ok to ask.

Once a mother always a mother... It's a cliche for a reason.

Struggling to see how this fits into the conversation. Yes, motherhood and fatherhood is for life. And...?

If a mother becomes a man , motherhood isn’t for life but transform into fatherhood right ?
That’s is what you mean I suppose ?
Let’s hope the kids will be able to accept it .

I have not seen any one 'against the word mother' when used to describe a certain person that fits that term. "She is a mother" is fine.

However there is a massive move not to generically refer to the process as having a baby and being the parent who bore the baby as a 'mother'. So when speaking about the act of giving birth, one must refer to 'birthing persons' and not 'mother'; so that you do not offend a transman who can give birth.

I doubt very much that this issue is one pushed by the absolute miniscule percent of transmen who opt to give birth, and am quite certain it is an issue of Ooboo's who are offended and demand this on their behalf. I think that is the safe betting odds.

By the next Mothers Day i would be shocked if Canada has not made some accomodation and changed the term.

(i just see Bobo post saying never and I would do a Av bet with him that in some way the term Mothers Day is adapted)

Of course they could just say they are redefining the term 'mother' to be inclusive of both ciswomen and transmen. Words and language can and do evolve thru common usage so that one would be easy. BUt I think making it easy is often NOT the point. There is always an activist element to this.

No one said they couldn't be called fathers if that's what they prefer. It's the term "birthing parent" which is pretty out there.

Is Mother's Day an official holiday in Canada? It isn't in the US, so the government would have nothing to say about it.

You missed that the suggestion was to refer to everyone as "it", not just trans people. I would agree with that; I support taking all gendered terms out of the English language.

I didn't say, or even imply, that it was my choice to make; you're strawmanning already.

I would say that someone who changes his mind often about whether or not he wants a tattoo would be unwise to get one. Not that it should be illegal, it would just be a poor decision.

But in my mind it is definitely contradictory to believe that gender is fluid, and to believe that it is a good idea for anyone to get gender-affirming surgeries. I'm not certain, but I get the impression that some people believe both. If there is anyone here who believes both, I would appreciate an explanation as to why you think both are true, as maybe I am misunderstanding something there.

This is just silly. Parents can become trans, and just as a “daughter” might become a “son”, a “mother” might become a “father”. There is no need to get all tied up in linguistic traps. Just show basic respect of referring to people as they ask to be referred to.

lmao. Buddy, it is trans women who would call themselves mothers. How are you still screwing these basic linguistic things up?

It seems that you are using a different definition for the words than some others are. When I say my "mother", I don't mean "my parent who identifies as a female". I mean "the person who gave birth to me". Even if that person changes gender, he is still "the person who gave birth to me". I would suspect that more people identify with my definition of mother than of yours.

And if I did use your terminology, I would now have two fathers and no mothers, so if I refer to in conversation to "my father", it would no longer refer to a specific person. I guess I would have to begin referring to them as "my birthing parent" and "my inseminating parent". Is that actually what you want?

I just had to make up "inseminating parent", but it seems the most logical thing. Is there actually a term that some people are using to refer to the person who contributed the sperm to replace "father"?

I can't see how this even applies to the quoted comment. I believe QP was saying what the government could do when defining "Mother's Day". He certainly wasn't talking about what trans people could do.

What do you mean by "massive?"

Adopted children, children of lesbian couples, step children, children from surrogates....all of these may call their female parent raising them "mother". If your parent is female, the term mother is standard.

You really didn't think of gay couples before you hit post huh? How embarassing.

That's exactly right. All we really have is a completely well intentioned hope to be inclusive to trans men who might also find themselves reading pamphlets in the birthing classes. This isn't some big conspiracy theory, you can still call your mom a mom. But it is acknowledging that our society does have some people that don't fit the normal mode and if we can do a few signs of basic respect to help them feel included, great. That's it.

You are really, really, really overthinking this.

If it happened in my family, I expect we'd settle on some way my "new" father wanted to be referred to, and roll with that. And depending on what it was, it might make for some fun explanations, which I'd be just fine with.

That's not to say it wouldn't be really ****ing weird for me and many others, and something that would take a lot of getting used to. But it wouldn't be about me. I'm not the one going through the change, and I'm not the one who may have been holding this in for the last 50+ years, so it's on me to deal with it. Or not. I could just keep talking to everyone about my mother as if nothing had changed, but if that wasn't what they wanted, then I think that would be a pretty big dick move on my part and I expect it would harm our relationship.

But if you're really concerned, you could probably check in with someone who has two dads and doesn't know who gave birth to them. It could be that they've found a way through this ever-so-tricky conundrum of what to call everyone.

The odds of the mom thing directly impacting someone here is so tiny.
One argument that can be made and shouted down I'm sure is just completely stop using the word mother on the news or whatever and your 5 year old kid asking you why they don't use mom or something.
Like I'd imagine I don't want to get into any sex talk with my 5 year old besides yes you were in mommy's belly and definitely don't want to start getting into the nuance of trans birthing people but still such a small chance it really affects anyone's life but it's a good Tulsi talking point.

As someone with a five year old, the great thing about talking to them about LGBT issues is that the frameworks of kindness and optimistic futures that pervade all sorts of parenting are all just the same. You can grow up to be anything you want to be! You should treat everyone kindly, even when they are different from ourselves!

But it isn't just that you can grow up to be a firefighter, when you grow up you might want to kiss boys or girls, you might want to wear dresses or pants, and all of that is totally up to you and is totally ok. Kids are smart and don't have our political sensibilities, he doesn't think it is at all remarkable that he has three grandmas because one of his grandmas married a woman, it's just something he has, and so inclusive language like this is, imo, great. The hilarious bit is in some of the book banning in the US, they've tried to ban books we've read that have litterally zero explicit LGBT content but are nothing but talking about being kind to people who are different from us. If you are a parent and aren't teaching that lesson, you are doing it wrong.

So I can be a she? Cool when you adress me going forward please refer to my pronouns she/her/women thank you. Tommorow I think I wil be a them so if you adress me tommorow please use my them/they/their pronouns. Thanks.

No, I didn't think of that, because I was talking about myself, and my parents were not a gay couple. And a gay couple can't be both a genetic parent.
Not embarrassing though, and you left out answering the question I actually asked you. How do people with two parents of the same gender normally refer to them so someone who knows them can figure out who they are talking about? I don't know the answer to that.

if it helps you feel more in tune and secure with your own body/mind. i wont judge you.

Can you break down how fluid social constructs function?

There are people who claim that gender is fluid, and there are people who claim that it is a social construct-- but I've never heard it claimed before that it is both, and the ideas seem somewhat contradictory.