You seem mad. It does seem like you care about this issue, you've consistently posted about it for years. But your arguments always amount to finding inconsistencies in those who value the humanity in transgender people and never those who are making life so hard for them. I've known many gay, lesbian and transgender people and can say you're embarrassing yourself.

I assumed when he suggested a goat skin version that he was just trolling.

You've accused me of trying to denigrate trans people and are acting like I don't care about individual rights, which is a bullshit accusation. I care about the same people you care about. I'm just aware that gender ideology is harmful to people whereas you buy into it.

Also, if your arguments are problematic and have inconsistencies, get better arguments.

With some folks it's hard to distinguish poor thinking from trolling. (And I'm sure I'm one of the folks for whom it can be hard to sometimes tell the difference in my own posts, so I'm not "throwing stones" here.)

I only read what I think was the original post that cited some study and you replying "this" and continued to make it sound like you believed most trans people are basically mentally ill. It was late and I was just closing my eyes to go to bed so could have easily misinterpreted your post.
Do you believe gay people for the most part are born that way or a product of their environment or mentally ill?

I believe until the late 1960's or early 1970's the mental health establishment considered homosexuality a mental illness. When that viewpoint became politically/socially inexpedient, they had to change their official position.

addendum:

From wikipedia:

When someone makes a modest joke about someone's views who compared homosexuality to pedophilia most people could understand why people with more passive personalities might go that route instead of shouting over them. I'm not big on shouting.

OK. Against my better judgement I am going to post certain parts of the deleted post so you can see what was said. But first some comments about some of the posts others made in response to my post:

I did not say that anyone said transgender people were less than human. I was giving another example of hate speech that I thought people could figure out without having to actual repeat the slur. During slavery, and for the decades since, there was a large group of people that specifically viewed blacks as some sort of less than fully human compared to whites. That's what allowed them to buy and sell them like horses, and inflict the indescribable pain and suffering on them, and then still go to church on Sunday and talk about how everyone should treat their fellow man kindly. So I was giving another example, not quoting the post.

The DSM-5 does not state that gender dysphoria is the same thing as being a transgender person. Quite the contrary, it states that gender dysphoria is a condition some, not all transgender people get as a result of the incongruence between their gender identity and their sex. So no, the medical reference does not say all transgender people are suffering from a delusion. (And SS, there is a big difference between saying someone is "delusional" because of their argument or opinion and saying that someone is actually experiencing a delusion. )

And to those who think no line was crossed, that it was a respectful post and no one said transgenders dont exist, just reread what is in the spoilers and see if you still feel that way.

I will leave this up for a while and then delete the quoted part.

The cave painting/TV line is a good one.

But yeah I don't think that post expresses any hatred towards trans people. People can not like it because it's blunt, but I don't see any hatred.

No one is actually "white" or "black" either of course. Not in either the literal or figurative sense. Race isn't real. Saying that isn't denying the existence of people who think they have a race (except for the Sentinelese they can be a race due to a long time being isolated).

Thank you for providing context for the discussion, Browser.

I certainly didn't see hatred toward trans people at all in the post.

If that kind of post is going to get deleted, then the whole trans thread should be shut down again for the umpteenth time imo.

At all?

None.

Calling trans people "delusional" might be factually incorrect (who knows?), but it is not an example of "hatred."

If I call the guy standing on the street corner yelling at the mothership in the sky "delusional", I wouldn't hate the guy. Quite the contrary: I'd want him to get help!

People have some weird definitions of hatred. Not buying into a gender based psychology isn't hatred

Hatred is strongly disliking someone or some thing.

That kind of post will absolutely get deleted again. Not because it's blunt, but because it is full of falsehoods, deliberately misrepresents what the DSM-5 actually says, and tells transgender people they don't exist, implies they believe in a gender fairy, and are suffering from a mental disorder. as I said, the thread won't get shut down for unacceptable posts. The posters will get shut down for unacceptable posts.

If you truly can't see what is wrong about that post, I suggest you refrain from posting in that thread.

A clear case of agenda-driven "science" imo.

Except there would seem to be actual science at play. Sexuality is a real thing.

Since the thread is clearly agenda-driven and since some legitimate points-of-view of are being silenced, I will heed your warning and stop posting in the thread.

Thank for you making your position clear.

There was next to nothing in the quoted post that was true irt transgender people. So why would you think this forum is a truth free zone? What specific things do you believe you cannot tell the truth about?

I have no idea what spirit of the age refers to. The last age I was aware of was when we entered the age of Aquarius. .

I'm done with this thread, per your warning.

You believe that people can be born in the wrong body?

That one idea basically sums up the entire post.

I have no agenda to drive. What agenda do you think I am driving? And stating that all transgendered people are by definition suffering from a delusion and a mental disorder, neither of which is true, despite the false citation of DSM-5, is not a legitimate point of view. Just because someone believes something doesnt make it a legitimate point of view. Facts matter. When you state that the DSM-5 considers all transgender people to be suffering from the mental disorder of gender dysphoria that is simply incorrect. Damage is done when others read posts like that and walk away thinking that is the position of the medical community when it is not.

What is the actual position of the medical community? I know you posted the link but if a dysphoria isn't a mental disorder then what is it? Why even discuss it in the DSM V at all?

Are they just saying that dysphorias are dysphorias and mental disorders have some different meaning?

"Clinically significant distress" is what I'm finding. This is the part that just seems like semantics. And semantics are fun for sure, but it's not a physical distress.

That phrase is simply a shorthand way of describing the situation where there is an incongruence between a person's physiological make up and their psychological make up. That's part of the definition of gender dysphoria. It's a laymans term for describing a much more complex and nuanced condition.