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Old 10-16-2021, 12:43 PM   #2626
Cuepee
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Re: Transgender issues (formerly "Transgender/Athlete Controversy")

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjou812 View Post
Whether this is a mistake he simply continues to make or a lie is probably a matter of interpretation. Clearly, the report is written about post pubescent athletes and their advantages, so saying the report says nothing about youth sport, if not a lie, is wrong.

Also, looking at the recipients of the guidelines, all the members of these organizations I looked up have youth organizations that they sponsor, organize and run. To conclude the report written to these members is not intended to provide guidelines for youth sports is again wrong, if not a lie.

England sports appear to be organized around NGB's, not schools as in the US (although both are funded by national lotteries):

The National Governing Bodies of sport, also known as NGB’s, are an essential element of sport that governs and administers a sport on a national basis, whether that be for the whole of the United Kingdom, Great Britain, or for one of the Home Countries individually. Aside from overseeing rules, clubs, coaching and competitions, the NGB of each sport decides how to spend income generated by membership fees, TV rights, Lottery Grants and investment from Government and the four UK Sports Councils. Traditionally NGBs are viewed as the guardians of their sport, they’re important social institutions, influencing who gets to play sport and on what terms.
Sport is a particularly important aspect of UK society, involving a significant number of participants and spectators, occupying a key role in furthering the nation’s health, and, at the elite level, a source of considerable national pride. NGB’s include organisations such as The Football Association, Rugby Football Union and England Athletics.
I find 'uke's assertion bizarre if not a lie.

If I say 'racism is bad' I don't have to specfically say 'racism against blacks is bad' for that to be captured in my statement.

uke keeps saying the Study makes no mention specifically about "Youth Sport" as if that means then Youth Sport is excluded when it is not.

The bodies who contributed to these guidelines manage ALL sport across the UK, including Youth sports.
If Youth Sport is excluded from the Study then it is a necessary burden to say so explicitly (such findings exclude the Youth Sport for the following reasons...) otherwise any proper application of the English language says it is for Sport (a catch all word for ALL SPORT) across the UK.

I read the report and all the sub reports linked and in each and everyone they reference this as guidelines for Sport across the UK. Not just adult, not just Youth.

Quote:

The focus of this equality impact assessment (EQIA) is the Guidance for Transgender Inclusion in Domestic Sport that was produced to support National Governing Bodies (NGBs) / Scottish Governing Bodies (SGBs)
of sport across the UK.

The guidance was a joint project of the Sports Council Equality Group (SCEG), comprising UK Sport, Sport England, sportscotland, Sport Wales and Sport NI.

In March 2020, SCEG commissioned an independent review of its existing guidance (2015) for the inclusion of transgender people in sport, recognising that sport at every level required more practical advice and support in this area and an updated evidence review was also needed.
cite
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Old 10-16-2021, 12:49 PM   #2627
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Re: Transgender issues (formerly "Transgender/Athlete Controversy

Quote:
Originally Posted by uke_master View Post
I'm excited. ....
You are such a child that you think agreeing to disagree over interpretation is a clap out loud win for you but I do understand as you are obviously starved for anything you can label a win.

But I want everyone here to read uke's post and understand what he is calling a win.

he has stated he agrees with the findings of the Study and he is saying Trans women should no place to compete other then in a division that would allow men. The easiest way to accommodate this Study is simply to rename every Men's division 'Open' and ensure trans women and cis can compete there too.

He is ok keeping trans women out of the women's division if that is done.

He is so eager and desperate for anything he perceives as a win against me, even when it is not, that he jumps to accept a position that is far more hostile to trans women.

Good for you uke.

You really are clown. So vested in any perceived win that you complete lost the plot.


I won, but I died, but at least i FINALLY got a win against QP. I'm so happy, happy, happy..

Man that is some crazy level of desperate.
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Old 10-16-2021, 12:54 PM   #2628
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Re: Transgender issues (formerly "Transgender/Athlete Controversy")

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjou812 View Post
Whether this is a mistake he simply continues to make or a lie is probably a matter of interpretation. Clearly, the report is written about post pubescent athletes and their advantages, so saying the report says nothing about youth sport, if not a lie, is wrong.

Also, looking at the recipients of the guidelines, all the members of these organizations I looked up have youth organizations that they sponsor, organize and run. To conclude the report written to these members is not intended to provide guidelines for youth sports is again wrong, if not a lie.

England sports appear to be organized around NGB's, not schools as in the US (although both are funded by national lotteries):

The National Governing Bodies of sport, also known as NGB’s, are an essential element of sport that governs and administers a sport on a national basis, whether that be for the whole of the United Kingdom, Great Britain, or for one of the Home Countries individually. Aside from overseeing rules, clubs, coaching and competitions, the NGB of each sport decides how to spend income generated by membership fees, TV rights, Lottery Grants and investment from Government and the four UK Sports Councils. Traditionally NGBs are viewed as the guardians of their sport, they’re important social institutions, influencing who gets to play sport and on what terms.
Sport is a particularly important aspect of UK society, involving a significant number of participants and spectators, occupying a key role in furthering the nation’s health, and, at the elite level, a source of considerable national pride. NGB’s include organisations such as The Football Association, Rugby Football Union and England Athletics.
The national governing bodies are NOT in charge of school sports. The report says nothing about this. There is one mention of it here:

Quote:
Does your sport have modified rules for females,
males or other categories such as juniors?

This is the case for some sports and would
potentially require modification to promote
inclusion.
Even that statement is not about school sports if I understand it correctly, it would be about junior levels of a competition regulated by one of the national governing bodies. So from the perspective of our grade 9 girls school team, it says effectively nothing.

Last edited by uke_master; 10-16-2021 at 01:01 PM.
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Old 10-16-2021, 01:00 PM   #2629
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Re: Transgender issues (formerly "Transgender/Athlete Controversy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuepee View Post
You are such a child that you think agreeing to disagree over interpretation is a clap out loud win for you but I do understand as you are obviously starved for anything you can label a win.
Ouch. This is so painful for you. You completely confused what the report said so badly and now want to chalk it down to agree to disagree on interpretation? Lol. Sorry buddy, there is no ambiguity at all about what the report means with "open" division. Nothing to interpret. It is plain as day, and you just ****ed it up.

How embarassing.

Quote:
he has stated he agrees with the findings of the Study and he is saying Trans women should no place to compete other then in a division that would allow men. The easiest way to accommodate this Study is simply to rename every Men's division 'Open' and ensure trans women and cis can compete there too.

He is ok keeping trans women out of the women's division if that is done. He is so eager and desperate for anything he perceives as a win against me, even when it is not, that he jumps to accept a position that is far more hostile to trans women.
You misread my comment almost as badly as you misread the report. Nothing can beat how badly you misread the report, of course, that was hilariously inept, but this is a close second. Here's what I said again:
Quote:
The idea of relabeling "men" to "open" is a small symbolic shift in the current status quo to give the appeal of increased inclusion. It doesn't fix all the inclusion problems. It doesn't mean we should ban trans girls from youth sports. But it is a small net positive
Now try to calm down, breathe deeply, read it again slowly, and maybe this time you won't **** up and confuse a "small symbolic shift that doesn't fix all the inclusion problems" with "He is ok keeping trans women out of the women's division if that is done". My goodness this is embarrassing for you.
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Old 10-16-2021, 01:09 PM   #2630
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Re: Transgender issues (formerly "Transgender/Athlete Controversy

Quote:
Originally Posted by WHERE IT STARTED
Lies.

uke is lying here assuming others will not click the links and read the source doc's.

NO it is a lie this is about the mens division and changing that to Open. The Men's division is and has been a defacto Open Division for a long time.

Don't let uke lie to any of you and tell you that it is all about the men's division and elite sport only as it is not. That is a bold faced lie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HOW ITS GOING View Post
agreeing to disagree over interpretation i
I'm sorry, I'm just enjoying your screwup up too much because of how ****ing confident you were at the beginning despite being sky-is-green level wrong. It's too much
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Old 10-16-2021, 01:37 PM   #2631
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Re: Transgender issues (formerly "Transgender/Athlete Controversy")

Quote:
Originally Posted by uke_master View Post
The national governing bodies are NOT in charge of school sports. The report says nothing about this. There is one mention of it here:



Even that statement is not about school sports if I understand it correctly, it would be about junior levels of a competition regulated by one of the national governing bodies. So from the perspective of our grade 9 girls school team, it says effectively nothing.
You are lying again.

I provided the link and you click thru to each of the 5 Sports governing Bodies.

They are 5 representative bodies meant to spanning ALL SPORT in the UK.

In no way do they suggest they are limited to adult sport and exclude Youth Sport in their considerations and in fact they specifically say they address any AGE issues and all SPORT in their considerations.

Quote:
Sport Northern Ireland,

1. Due regard to the need to promote equality of opportunity between persons of different religious belief, political opinion, racial group, age, marital status, sexual orientation, men and women generally, persons with a disability or persons without, and persons with dependants and persons without;...
Read what is in the caption below as they state clearly their focus is infancy to the Olympics and everything in between, AKA more simply, 'Sport'.

Watch their video and it shows you infancy, school age, Olympic.


The below DOES NOT exclude Youth sport just because they say Sport.

Quote:
Sport England

We stand for everybody, from every background, in every place, having an equal chance to be active and benefit from it.

Our aim is for a sporting system that's truly inclusive and properly reflective of UK society.

These are our four broad ambitions:

1 Participation levels
Closing the race gap in levels of participation in sport and physical activity for specific Black, Asian and minority ethnic groups that are behind national participation levels – similar to the focus we’ve had on closing the gender gap in recent years.

2 Talented athletes
Supporting the identification and development of talented athletes, including those from Black, Asian and minority ethnic backgrounds.


3 Leadership and workforce
Transforming both the executive and non-executive leadership and workforce within sport and physical activity, to make it representative of the population.

4 Our organisation
Ensuring that, by 2026, our own organisation is representative of the population and the people it serves, at all levels within the organisation, by setting a new target to double the proportion of Black, Asian and minority ethnic background staff in Sport England.

This means a minimum of 20% of staff to come from a Black, Asian or minority ethnic background by halfway through our 10-year strategy, Uniting the Movement. Although historically we've had had low staff turnover, we believe this is a realistic and ambitious target and we're committed to meeting it.
There simply is no reason to say or suggest the bolded below excludes Youth Sport since it does explicitly say it. The comment as written includes ALL sport.

Quote:
Sportwales

POLICIES AND GOVERNANCE
We are the national organisation responsible for developing and promoting sport and physical activity in Wales.

As a Welsh Government sponsored body we are bound by rules and responsibilities of good governance and we have a number of duties we are obligated to meet.

This section provides information on our duties, the governance of Sport Wales and resources and support for the sport sector in Wales.


THE VISION FOR SPORT
The Vision for Sport in Wales is that everyone can have a lifetime enjoyment of sport. We want Wales to be an active nation with as many people as possible inspired to be active through sport.

And when we say everyone, that’s exactly what we mean. From people who don’t see themselves as sporty to people who win medals. Everybody.

We want a Wales where you can play sport at whatever stage of life you’re at, with diverse opportunities that fit in and around your lifestyle.

But ultimately, sport needs to be fun and enjoyable so you keep coming back – time and time again.
Again uke the fact that when data does not suit you, you so willingly spin and lie should be astounding but it no longer is.

There is no reason, NONE, to read all the statements and context to suggest these bodies exclude Youth sport and your argument 'they never say Youth sport explicitly so therefore..' is just hollow and lie.
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Old 10-16-2021, 01:40 PM   #2632
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Re: Transgender issues (formerly "Transgender/Athlete Controversy")

This really isn't a discussion anymore. Stop with the back and forth. You're both right; you're both wrong.

Happy now?
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