Outlawing transgender athletes hurts them a lot and also somewhat hurts other transgender people. Not outlawing them significantly hurts perhaps .1% of the female population. So why not just let everybody compete with the proviso that those few females who incur significant damages from this policy be fairly compensated? The details would have to be worked out but should be no big deal.

(I am assuming there is not yet a thread on this subject. If there is please move this post there.)

I have never understood why this is such a difficult topic as a person who is all for allowing people to live their lives as they want including trans.

Instead of defining sports by gender do so by 'biological sex'. Thus you have no discrimination.

No one has ever said 'sports must be segregated or defined by gender'. But since terms of 'boys V girls', 'men V women' got used it was just assumed it was gender'.

As the term gender has grown and become more fluid, sports should go back to their original intent which was to separate athletes by biological sex.

Somehow I feel like changing it from "mens" and "womens" to "males" and "females" is not going to leave everyone satisfied.

What do you perceive is the way around sports defined by biological sex?

What argument can one put that defining and separating by biological sex is either wrong or in any way discriminatory?

Just by this common sense point you are Anti Trans according to the trans community.

I am being serious when I say there is no way to paint that as an anti trans position.

Trans do not argue they have no biological sex. They are as included in, as is everyone in the CIS, LGBTQ communities to compete on the exact same footing without bias or discrimination.

There is no rationale to say Sport must be defined by gender and not biological sex and in fact quite the opposite. It is the only way to ensure no such discrimination is possible for ANYONE.


I can support gender being completely fluid, but then acknowledge that complicates things if we use gender to classify individuals for sport. I support the ability of a person to say their gender is male at 2pm and then 15 minutes later saying they are female. I seriously support that.

But that does not mean they should get to run in the men's 100 and then the women's 100 minutes later.

I know your being serious but sadly that is considered in the community as Anti Trans

Take Joe Rogan he has been labeled anti trans as he believes a biological male should not compete in UFC and fight Biological females especially if they do not disclose that they use to be a man .

Reality having a position that they should be able to compete violates woman's rights or biological female .

I also do not think that anyone under the age of 18 should be prescribed the puberty blockers either. Once your 18 do as you want

I am not concerned that the most extreme in any movement or group will say nonsensical inflammatory things.

What I am concerned with is ensuring equality. No group is disadvantaged by competition by biological sex. No reasonable argument can be made against it.

If you define by 'gender' and society is accepting that gender is fluid, then I am siding with the trans and they belong in men's and women's sport as they see fit and declare. Sorry society deal with the problem you created and don't blame the Trans.

OR...

Take all that away and define it by biological sex. Done.

If a Trans activist want to then argue that 'making me compete by my biological sex is discrimination'... make them answer how? And ignore the slights devoid of reason.

It can't be done because females would have a major disadvantage. I've heard a discussion about this topic.
Too many idiots would abuse this rule. Imagine a really big guy, he would just crush any female competition. (In the NBA or mma for instance. Imagine at sprint. Unfortunately there are too many guys that would take this as an opportunity to get too much of an edge.

I would weigh in on this but I don’t actually care about sports very much , except the nba.

fyp

Well you don't have to use hypotheticals as there are now quite a few examples of exactly that.

This transwoman rugby player in Australia who apparently did not want to play with the women and wanted to still play with the men despite transitioning was not allowed by the rules, if I remember that story correctly.
Numerous transwomen sprinters starting to re-write womens records.


I have no doubt that you will see almost all of womens sport dominated by transwomen both at the amateur and professional and Olympic levels within decades because the only choice will be to follow suit or lose, badly. And it will be the death of women's sport as few people will want to watch a bunch of people who were competing as men at lower levels declare themselves trans with no hormones and no surgery and go on to destroy women's sport. And the day after they win the women's gold medal they switch back to being a man.

Women who are not trans will also lose their sports scholarship path to Universities.

it's simple, follow the pornhub model & make a new category

I'd totally pay to watch Lebron dunking on chicks while wearing a pink tutu.

That is not simple if you keep the discussion within the boundaries of gender.

Once a society decides gender is fluid and a transwoman is a woman just as a biological woman is a woman then it is discrimination, by definition to say the transwoman cannot compete against other woman. It is discrimination by categorization.


However if you say across all sport the categories are defined by biological sex then every single person is selected the same way. Every single person gets to compete against the same person in that category. There is no discrimination as the playing field is the exact same for all and not a single individual is treated differently.

cuepee. caster semenya isn't trans. so you should probably remove her picture from your hate rant.

she is intersex and has been "assigned" as female since birth. she also , i believe, has hyperandrogenism which puts her at higher hormone levels than others. she fits every transphobes definition of "woman" until they decide she doesn't look womanly enough. they designed a new rule to specifically outlaw her(that coincidentally ONLY applied to the distances she ran) because she didnt fit under a trans-ban.

Fallon Fox is a bad *****. I bet she could even beat up some men.

DS has definitely authored more than one OP on this exact topic, and it never ends well because common sense requires that you be "mean" to certain trans people in this situation. Cutting your dick off doesn't give you the right to dominate women's sports.

How do you define the damages, and who compensates them?

Are we talking about a work comp situation where female athletes are reimbursed $10k for each bone broken by the totally-not-a-man during competition? Or you mean like, "Well if not for Chadrina over there, I certainly would've received first place, which means someone owes me that $100k prize."

I'm with cuepee in that we shouldn't care what you want to call yourself, but have some respect for the spirit of fair competition. The waters are muddy enough with people who have other genetic abnormalities that improve their physical performance without introducing a purely psychological one into the mix. Men and women are separated for a reason. It's not transphobic to apply some common sense to this.

Semenya has XY chromosomes btw. I'm pretty sure that everyone who has ever picked up a science book would acknowledge that means you are a male. What happened in the delivery room wasn't her fault, but again, men and women's sports are separated for a reason.

The boring answer is to give all trans people their own category ala the Special Olympics, but good luck getting the kind of support required to actually get something like that off the ground. Plus, let's be honest, it's mostly the the men turned women who would win anything and that still leaves the now bearded former females out in the cold. I'd say that they should just compete in women's sports but we all know they can't, because they're taking hormones that make them unfair competition for the other women. And yet we're sitting here trying to justify letting men who were born with a body that pumps those hormones out naturally compete with aforementioned women in sports just because they have some mental problems.

I know I'm not the only person who realizes how insane this whole argument is.

yes. your argument is dumb. i agree.

Not that I'm in the interest of banning discussion on any topics-- but the only way to win here is to not play. And you already lost.

Yes, I suspect that's the approach that most people take on this completely uncontroversial controversy.

Roll their eyes and move on to the next thread.

I think not engaging in solutions to this will result in far more future problems.

it is a tiny percent of participants now so few people care but as the numbers grow this will become prevalent.

And it is harder to make changes the longer you let something run.

But I agree it is a tough discussion to have as you get people like Slighted who will take any attempt to discuss it and just reflexively label it 'hate' when it is exactly the opposite, at least for me.

I am very libertarian in my views of people's view of themselves and how they choose to live. But that does not also mean we cannot address how a person who was a man yesterday, did no surgery, took no hormones, and simply identifies as a woman today, gets to interact within women's sport.

it is hate. especially when you try to sweep up people like caster in it, who have done nothing to alter their body. that's like saying someone who was born too tall shouldn't be allowed in the NBA because they were just too tall.

the whole thing just yet another conservative boogeyman. there is no evidence that it will become a "prevalent" problem. the inso-level guys will cut their penises off to dominate women's sports take is the equivalent transwomen are only trans to harass/molest girls in bathroom take..

it's not about any kind of "fairness". sports have never been and were never intended to be "fair". you think a 5'8" 145 lb guy didn't become the next big NBA star just because he didn't work hard enough? just didnt want it badly enough? didn't put in enough hours?

it's not about any misguided "health and safety of the other athletes" either, because if these people that were that concerned about health and safety then they would be protesting against the sports themselves that are incredibly unsafe and have long term disastrous effects on young people like football, hockey, girls lacrosse(without helmets), and all of the combat sports.

it's about hate and fear.

i just google image searched intersex genitalia... wild stuff