The above is the biggest myth and misunderstanding that pervades this discussion, anytime it is raised.

I think the majority reason many people rail against tip is because they somehow think it will save them money as the Restaurant owner is now going to simply pick up that cost and not pass it on to them.

Customer PAYS $E in a system where tipping is allowed:

Food costs _____________ $A
Alcohol Costs ____________$B
Sub Total ________________$C
Tip _____________________$D
Grand Total ______________$E


Customer pays $E when there is no tipping :

Food costs _____________ $A
Alcohol Costs ____________$B
Service Charge___________$C
Sub Total________________$D
Grand Total ______________$E

I think it's been many years since I gave a server a tip less than 15%. Even for mediocre service.

If I didn't leave a tip even for bad service, I kinda feel like I would be stealing from the server in some way.

100% tax rate for people making over $150,000 per year.

Ever stiffed a rude/unprofessional poker dealer? I think it's the same concept on a different scale.

Me too.

I figure since I know they only make 2 bucks an hour I'm agreeing to tip at least the minimum when I sit down for service.

Are we suckers ?

I've never played a raked live game. Only home games.

Not sure it's the same concept, since a rude dealer can cause tilt and make a player lose lots of money.

My dinner costs the same whether the server is nice or rude.

For people that pay as they drink (with cash), it is the more common custom to pay coins + $x instead of y% of price. I think that method also makes more sense. Back when I was in that type of job, we had to claim a certain % of sales for our taxes (I think it was 8%) but thankfully I don't remember.

do people in Australia not leave money per drink???

Mr Pink vs Mr Pinkman

Not usually. The wages are all built into the price of the drinks.

If I went into my restaurant tomorrow and told all of the servers that they were all getting paid $20/HR but not be able to accept tips, I'd have a mutiny.

90% of the takes ITT about restaurants are garbage by people who haven't worked in or ran restaurants.


Excellent post


and FWIW, I'm for getting rid of tips, and think tipping as a percentage is dumb.

You order 4 craft beers and a dinner entree vs 4 draft beers and a sandwich. That's a difference of $3-$5 in tips for a single person. Same amount of effort for the server.

I tip very generously because I am not an ******* and I know how much service workers depend on tips. But I somewhat dislike tipping culture. If I could live in a world where I paid more and didn't tip, and the service industry did as well or better as they did in the tipping world, then that's what I would prefer.

The idea that service workers won't behave competently unless the customer has the ability to reward or punish the service worker seems silly and somewhat demeaning. House painters, plumbers, etc., provide service all the time without the enforcement mechanism of tips.

That said, I am very unwilling to abolish tipping culture if it would end up screwing service workers, and I have no idea whether that would occur.

I read that min wage in australia is 17 dollars an hour is that true? That's pretty good. It says in article you tip taxis though why is that?

17 AUD or 17 USD?

It is not so much about incompetence. It is a simple fact of human nature that most people react different to merit pay than they do a guaranteed flat wage regardless of performance.

You will have people step up their game, from a baseline, if they see it results, weekly in more pay for them.

I would love to see a polling group randomly target and poll a meaningful cross section of 'servers' from high end to low end, and ask 'would you prefer to get rid of tips and move to a flat pay model'.


I would bet that it would be 90% or more saying NO.

I honestly think the vast, vast majority of people who complain about tipping are customers who wrongly, as the poster above showed, think tipping is costing them more money and thus if they could get rid of tipping they (the customer) would keep more money in their pocket and just force the restaurant owner to pay more.

So it is born, IMO, out of ignorance and would be forced on employees who largely did not want it.

The question doesn't mean anything in the abstract. You would need to know how generous the flat pay model was in order to gauge the response.

You may be correct. I never complain about tipping. I answered only because you posed the question directly. Like you, I assume that getting rid of tipping would NOT reduce my costs. But even if it did, that wouldn't move the needle for me. I don't care about reducing my restaurant expenditures by 2% or whatever, and I would actively oppose it if it came at the expense of the service employees.

If service employees prefer the status quo, then we should stick with the status quo. I am not remotely religious about this issue.

Ya i agree, but the questionnaire could be tied by 'restaurant segment' meaning you get a targeted survey question tied to an 'hourly range' geared more towards the reasonable expectations of what a restaurant would pay, for a server, in the lowest, average and upper end of food service, that you are serving in.

Main problem with tipping as I see it is income stability, which is also very important (where can you live, what can you loan, what can you get your kids).

I come from a "non-tipping" culture. Or rather I come from a country where it's basically illegal to pay people crap wages. You can still tip if you want to, but you're not going be seen as a weirdo for not doing it.

I appreciate that. I don't think people should be forced to impress me to get a live-able wage, I just want them to do their job and it's nice to know they make enough to live okay. Tipping culture to me seems outdated and imperial, but it's also a strong trait of my culture that people are equals (though truth be told, that might be changing these days). "Above and beyond" customer service actually makes me very uncomfortable, and I'm not even kidding. It's one of the more akward aspects of visiting the US. Again, that is (at least partially) a cultural thing.

I don't how relevant this is to the thread, and it is certainly anecdotal. Still, since difference between these things have been brought up, I figured my two cents could be interesting.

150k a year is not that much money, tax the ultra rich so people have more money for them self and don’t have to complain so much about tipping

I think if a culture starts that way then no one knows any different and no one, much cares.

In places like the US and Canada, the genie is out of the bottle that servers tend to make quite a bit more thru tips (especially the ones who do well and thus don't need to declare all their tips and thus pay no tax on that part) than most others would in similar skilled jobs at that same level.

I worked in kitchens as a short order cook, in mid tier chain like restaurants, thru much of high school and Uni, and can remember when the first few restaurants went to tip pooling, because the rest of the staff, INCLUDING THE MANAGERS, were jealous of the nightly income of the servers.

Servers were making, with tips more than almost anyone else in the restaurants. So 50% of their nightly tips went into the 'Pool' and were divided amongst Shift Management, Cooks, Dishwashers, Bus boys, Hostesses.

I recall when the tip pooling first started many servers quit and went to restaurants that did not have it. But the trend pretty much permeated all establishments so they could not avoid it. They had to accept it.

And the Servers STILL STAYED, that is how much better it was compared to comparable jobs they might be able to get.

See the link i provided to the IHOP forum above. Average of $25/hr in that servers experience was what they were telling anyone thinking of working there. That is an extra $52K/yr on top of whatever hourly wage they are getting. Not 'rich' money but certainly not a poverty wage for an IHOP server. From there it is only up if you get into better restaurants.

Do we need a thread on littering culture?

Probably closer to 17 US - it was 17 aus dollars 10 years ago. The high minimum wage in many ways is probably why we have such a low unemployment rate here in Australia that it actually provides an incentive for people to go find a job and get off welfare benefits that would otherwise be on the long-term unemployment list.

Should I tip the dealers based on the size of the pot I win or just a constant amount no matter how large the pot I win is. I vote for the constant amount.

Same, but I try to make it a point to tip a larger amount when I suck out and my opponent gets salty. I'm petty like that.