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A thread for unboxing AI A thread for unboxing AI

11-22-2023 , 08:45 AM
I think the future of AI in art and particularly music gets derided as an idea too quickly before considering the merits. There are people that have devoted their lives to music theory and analysis and yet can't apply it well enough to write a good song, let alone a great one, and Western popular music has largely been very formulaic since forever. Even with humans at the wheel most of the conventions are simple and widely used and re-used. The challenge for songwriters is to create interesting and unique music while still being accessible/enjoyable for the listener.

Tonally, it's already no problem to mimic instrumentation or the human voice. And with art obviously AI image generation is pretty far along.

Unnatural as it may be I definitely see AI getting to the point of creating an enjoyable, photorealistic movie (with soundtrack) from start to finish, indistinguishable from a man made film. Or, say, a passable "new" Bowie album if that's what you wanted, and eventually creating them on demand. We can't be that far off now from some of what I've heard already although a full seamless thing will be a bit.

As odd as it might be to consider, completely AI singers and actors will probably be able to offer a lot of new and unique timbres styles that actually sound good, rather than just simulating existing ones. If you consider the drastic differences between the very unique voices of say Chris Cornell, Elton John and Whitney Houston it's very clear that the range of untapped possibilities for what a good sounding singing voice/timbre is is pretty vast and that most will never occur naturally.

I don't want to undersell the nuance that goes with creativity and talent in people, but again much of what passes for it now isn't particularly creative from example to example either. And you'll undoubtably see studios have AI create film screenplays from existing books or old films, while at the same time tracking estimated production costs and using whatever working formula they can.
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11-22-2023 , 09:15 PM
I wonder how much of the "human spirit" will play a role in what people want in movies and music - or with a lot of other things, really. AI could most certainly replicate Elton John's voice and create a never ending stream of new albums that sound like him but all that's going to do that is make folks appreciate Elton John more.

People also become fans of those that they can relate to and sympathize with and no one is really going to start idolizing the winner of the AI robot who won best supporting actor or who can play the drums the best. I can see some potential pushback in a lot of areas like that.
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11-22-2023 , 11:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by L0LWAT
There's nothing new or scary about "AI". All tech is being called AI now. We've been using machine learning models commercially since about 2016. Google released Tensorflow in 2015. Tech is good. There's nothing close to AGI, media is all silly hype.
I guess that it depends on how you define machine learning, but I'm almost certain that there were products that arguably fit the definition before 2016.
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11-23-2023 , 12:30 AM
To put it mildly!

I leaned genetic algorithms nearly 30 years ago and they were being used for pipeline optimisation before that.
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11-23-2023 , 12:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by formula72
I wonder how much of the "human spirit" will play a role in what people want in movies and music - or with a lot of other things, really. AI could most certainly replicate Elton John's voice and create a never ending stream of new albums that sound like him but all that's going to do that is make folks appreciate Elton John more.

People also become fans of those that they can relate to and sympathize with and no one is really going to start idolizing the winner of the AI robot who won best supporting actor or who can play the drums the best. I can see some potential pushback in a lot of areas like that.
People worry about deep fakes where you can't tell whether it's EJ or not but it wont be long until it's not clear whether there was ever a real personality being faked.

An interim or parallel stage will be a real human that is nothing but a front.
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11-24-2023 , 09:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzirra

I don't want to undersell the nuance that goes with creativity and talent in people, but again much of what passes for it now isn't particularly creative from example to example either. And you'll undoubtably see studios have AI create film screenplays from existing books or old films, while at the same time tracking estimated production costs and using whatever working formula they can.
True creativity involves generating novel and valuable ideas. With its access to massive datasets, AI doesn't have a problem creating novel ideas, as new ideas are essentially new combinations of old ideas. The challenge AI faces lies in separating the wheat from the chaff, filtering out non-valuable novel ideas from the valuable ones.

https://www.amazon.com/Promise-Artif.../dp/0262043041
The Promise of Artificial Intelligence: Reckoning and Judgment (MIT Press)
Quote:
Preface
At lunch on March 25, 1980, at a workshop on Artificial Intelligence and Philosophy at Stanford’s Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences, one of the participants suggested that we would all have been better off if Kant had written his Critique of Pure Reason in Lisp. Looking up in alarm, I locked eyes with an equally shocked participant, in the person of John Haugeland. So began a fast friendship and intellectual partnership that lasted until May 22, 2010, when John tragically succumbed to a heart attack at his own Festschrift at the University of Chicago. Haugeland was a philosopher, trained in existentialism and the philosophy of Heidegger, who devoted considerable resources to exploring the philosophical foundations of artificial intelligence (AI). I met him just as I was completing a doctorate in computer science at the Artificial Intelligence Laboratory at MIT. From that technical background I have spent much of my career reaching in the opposite direction from John, but toward the same territory: the philosophical imbrications of computation and mind....

Introduction
Neither deep learning, nor other forms of second-wave AI, nor any proposals yet advanced for third-wave, will lead to genuine intelligence. Systems currently being imagined will achieve formidable reckoning prowess, but human-level intelligence and judgment, honed over millennia, is of a different order. It requires “getting up out” of internal representations and being committed to the world as world, in all its unutterable richness. Only with existential commitment, genuine stakes, and passionate resolve to hold things accountable to being in the world can a system (human or machine) genuinely refer to an object, assess ontological schemes, distinguish truth from falsity, respond appropriately to context, and shoulder responsibility....
So whether new songs, computer programs, medical procedures, products, or a nuclear launch sequence, etc. the human faculty of judgment (is/isn't good) won't be replaced by AI in the foreseeable future, even though most of the human work leading up to it will.
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12-13-2023 , 03:33 PM
https://www.reuters.com/business/med...al-2023-12-13/

OpenAI is going to serve news stories from Axel Springer publications including at least one tabloid.
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12-13-2023 , 03:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubble_Balls
https://www.reuters.com/business/med...al-2023-12-13/

OpenAI is going to serve news stories from Axel Springer publications including at least one tabloid.
This is a dismaying but predictable evolution.
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02-16-2024 , 09:55 PM
Yesterday afternoon, OpenAI teased its text-to-video model, Sora. Below is a link that will give you examples of the videos that Sora is able to create, apparently from fairly basic text prompts.

https://openai.com/sora



As is typical for AI advancements, people are both impressed and concerned.

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-ne...led-rcna139065

As a point of comparison, here is where text to video was 10 months ago.


Last edited by Rococo; 02-17-2024 at 08:19 PM.
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02-17-2024 , 06:09 PM
future's gonna be crazy
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02-17-2024 , 06:51 PM
all of that and it still gives the absolute worst Chinese strategy advice
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02-17-2024 , 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc
all of that and it still gives the absolute worst Chinese strategy advice
Did it suggest invading Taiwan?
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02-17-2024 , 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by d2_e4
Did it suggest invading Taiwan?
Chinese poker.... This is a poker forum.
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02-17-2024 , 07:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc
Chinese poker.... This is a poker forum.
Sorry, didn't realise that poker and humour were mutually exclusive.
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02-18-2024 , 10:25 AM
In which air Canada chatbot invents a refund policy that didn't exist, and a court finds Air Canada has to comply with that policy.

The chatbot has then been disabled

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...lines-chatbot/
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03-03-2024 , 02:50 PM
Quote:
Israel is deploying new and sophisticated artificial intelligence technologies at a large scale in its offensive in Gaza. And as the civilian death toll mounts, regional human rights groups are asking if Israel’s AI targeting systems have enough guardrails.

In its strikes in Gaza, Israel’s military has relied on an AI-enabled system called the Gospel to help determine targets, which have included schools, aid organization offices, places of worship and medical facilities. Hamas officials estimate more than 30,000 Palestinians have been killed in the conflict, including many women and children.

It’s unclear if any of the civilian casualties in Gaza are a direct result of Israel’s use of AI targeting. But activists in the region are demanding more transparency — pointing to the potential errors AI systems can make, and arguing that the fast-paced AI targeting system is what has allowed Israel to barrage large parts of Gaza.

Palestinian digital rights group 7amleh argued in a recent position paper that the use of automated weapons in war “poses the most nefarious threat to Palestinians.” And Israel’s oldest and largest human rights organization, the Association for Civil Rights in Israel, submitted a Freedom of Information request to the Israeli Defense Forces’ legal division in December demanding more transparency on automated targeting.

The Gospel system, which the IDF has given few details on, uses machine learning to quickly parse vast amounts of data to generate potential attack targets.

The Israeli Defense Forces declined to comment on its use of AI-guided bombs in Gaza, or any other usage of AI in the conflict. An IDF spokesperson said in a public statement in February that while the Gospel is used to identify potential targets, the final decision to strike is always made by a human being and approved by at least one other person in the chain of command.
https://www.politico.eu/uk/
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03-04-2024 , 02:28 PM
Just the tip of the iceberg, but in the last few months, we have started to see a substantial amount of AI-generated disinformation related to the upcoming general election.

Here is an article about AI-generated photos being shared on social media that purport to show Trump hanging out with happy black voters.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68440150

And here is a video discussing a recent fake robocall from Biden urging people to stay home and not vote in the NH primary.



In each case, the content does not appear to have been solicited by Trump, Biden, or anyone on their respective staffs.
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03-05-2024 , 11:41 AM
So basically AI is The Matrix.

People who want to believe will buy into it hook line and sinker. People who don't, will notice the way-too-smooth skin and other oddities and know what's up.

Maybe everyone will be conditioned to assume that literally everything is fake and all photo/video evidence of events becomes worthless. We essentially go back in time 50 years to before the internet existed and eyewitness accounts are all that matter.

Is this how society finally breaks free of social media's grasp? Or, do people use this to even further ensconce themselves into a bubble universe where they can carefully control any outside influence that might damage their fragile sensibilities or challenge their beliefs. Like those boys who left the 2p2 forum to make their own politics safespace. AI can generate an endless supply of feelgood articles that validate their feelings.

Am I out of touch? No, everyone else is just deplorable.
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03-05-2024 , 12:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inso0
So basically AI is The Matrix.

People who want to believe will buy into it hook line and sinker. People who don't, will notice the way-too-smooth skin and other oddities and know what's up.

Maybe everyone will be conditioned to assume that literally everything is fake and all photo/video evidence of events becomes worthless. We essentially go back in time 50 years to before the internet existed and eyewitness accounts are all that matter.

Is this how society finally breaks free of social media's grasp? Or, do people use this to even further ensconce themselves into a bubble universe where they can carefully control any outside influence that might damage their fragile sensibilities or challenge their beliefs. Like those boys who left the 2p2 forum to make their own politics safespace. AI can generate an endless supply of feelgood articles that validate their feelings.

Am I out of touch? No, everyone else is just deplorable.
I'd be curious to see how courts ruling audiovisual evidence inadmissible due to how easily it can be manufactured would play out. No cctv, no wiretaps, no cell phone videos, no photographs etc.

Last edited by d2_e4; 03-05-2024 at 12:24 PM.
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03-05-2024 , 12:22 PM
Yeah, exactly. This turns the entire criminal justice system on its head once they correctly emulate things.

It gets even more nefarious once you realize how generally shitty some of the photo and video evidence is right now that gets people convicted of crimes. Grainy 720p video of someone with the right height, clothing, mannerisms to match the suspect is all you need. It'll trivial for an AI to spit out low res video of a 5'4" white guy in a red hat and cowboy boots clubbing all the babies at Seals "R" Us and then escaping in our suspect's 2003 lifted F-150 with a Calvin pissing on a pride flag in the back window.
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03-05-2024 , 12:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
I'd be curious to see how courts ruling audiovisual evidence inadmissible due to how easily it can be manufactured would play out. No cctv, no wiretaps, no cell phone videos, no photographs etc.
I don't know if it will change evidentiary rulings that much. For hundreds of years, it has been relatively easy to fake documents, but that hasn't stopped courts from admitting properly authenticated documents.

Videos work much the same as documents. Somebody has to swear under penalty of perfury that this is a true and correct copy of security camera footage captured on X date and that the video has not been edited or altered.

And that's how I expect it will work going forward.

Fake videos will be be much more destructive in shaping public opinion, where the rules of evidence don't apply.

How hard will it be for Trump supporters to spam social media with fake videos of poll workers coaching voters, destroying paper ballots, tinkering with voting machines, etc.?
Not very. Those videos won't be admitted in court, but they obviously will be sufficient to convince the Playbigs of the world, who are prepared to believe anything that confirms their weltanschauung.

Last edited by Rococo; 03-05-2024 at 01:57 PM.
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03-05-2024 , 01:40 PM
I see your weltanschauung and I (string) raise you a schadenfreude.
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03-05-2024 , 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rococo
I don't know if it will change evidentiary rulings that much. For hundreds of years, it has been relatively easy to fake documents, but that hasn't stopped courts from admitting properly authenticated documents.

Videos work much the same as documents. Somebody has to swear under penalty of perfury that this is a true and copy of security camera footage captured on X date and that the video has not been edited or altered.

And that's how I expect it will work going forward.

Fake videos will be be much more destructive in shaping public opinion, where the rules of evidence don't apply.

How hard will it be for Trump supporters to spam social media with fake videos of poll workers coaching voters, destroying paper ballots, tinkering with voting machines, etc.?
Not very. Those videos won't be admitted in court, but they obviously will be sufficient to convince the Playbigs of the world, who are prepared to believe anything that confirms their weltanschauung.
The playbigs of the world are already beyond redemption, they'll take a 5 year old's scratchings on an etch a sketch as evidence that the nuclear holocaust is coming on April 1st if enough like-minded people on FB or Twitter share a video saying it's so. It's the reasonable yet not hugely critically minded or discerning majority getting swayed that I am worried about; the fringes are already entrenched.
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03-05-2024 , 11:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
The playbigs of the world are already beyond redemption, they'll take a 5 year old's scratchings on an etch a sketch as evidence that the nuclear holocaust is coming on April 1st if enough like-minded people on FB or Twitter share a video saying it's so. It's the reasonable yet not hugely critically minded or discerning majority getting swayed that I am worried about; the fringes are already entrenched.
true. think it leads to even more extreme polarization, where even reasonable people can write off any evidence contra their worldview as deepfake conspiracies perpetrated by outgroups

agree fringes are already entrenched, but faked video could be enough to push them to more extreme and destabilizing beliefs/actions en masse

+1 to inso0, one of the scariest consequences is video footage, personal testimonies, etc. become worthless and we can't trust anything. people no longer have to believe any footage on the nightly news if they don't want to.
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03-05-2024 , 11:14 PM
in further dystopian news, google gemini anyone?

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